Swedish Flower Hen Thread

[Leahs Mom]

So what you're saying is that crested to crested breeding has been happening for years then and is not the issue.

But that the problem is not crested to crested but having mixed uncrested birds with crested and going down generations from there.

 

[ki4got]

So what you're saying is that crested to crested breeding has been happening for years then and is not the issue.

But that the problem is not crested to crested but having mixed uncrested birds with crested and going down generations from there.

crested to crested is fine, IF BOTH BIRDS HAVE BEEN BRED THAT WAY FOR GENERATIONS... such as the polish, silkies and other breeds that ARE ALWAYS CRESTED...

since the sfh are a mixture of crested lines and uncrested lines, you could get some that do fine, or you could get some that all croak at hatch (or before)

so why take the chance?

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Some breeds have been bred crest to crest for hundreds of years and have adapted.

There is a known issue with breeding crested SFH to crested SFH - high mortality, vaulted skulls, inability to hatch...

Every breed is different and has evolved differently. In the southern regions of Sweden, farms had mostly uncrested birds. Other regions to the north had primarily crested birds. We can assume a certain amount of evolutions in those regions that kept primarily crested birds... and that birds from regions that kept primarily uncrested birds would likely have different genetics. Thus, it is likely that the most fatal of crosses result from breeding crested birds to heterozygous crested birds with a primarily uncrested lineage who have not had time to evolve to the point of lower mortality rates from homozygous crests.

Long story short... a Swedish Flower Hen is not a Silkie or a Polish. Just because one can breed other breeds to have heterozygous genetics for crests does not mean the same can be applied to a breed where at least half the gene pool is not meant to be crested.

right I understand your explanation. I was speaking about my cream Legbars since the other poster said he breeds them crested to uncrested which is unnecesary per your explanation. Definitely good to be aware of though as I have both crested and uncrested Swedish flowers.

 

[lawatt]

just also keep in mind that genetics are never a set or static thing -- they are always shifting slightly from generation to generation -- and human management adds a factor that may not be represented genetically. so it's possible that crested-to-crested crosses evolve to have lower mortality rates, but it might also be (partly?) a function of how their keepers are breeding and managing them -- there's no guarantees either way.

similarly, SFHs here in the US are being kept in a much wider variety of climates and conditions than is likely in Sweden, and management styles undoubtedly vary -- so their genetics will continue shifting here.

 

[wildhorseannie]

just also keep in mind that genetics are never a set or static thing -- they are always shifting slightly from generation to generation -- and human management adds a factor that may not be represented genetically. so it's possible that crested-to-crested crosses evolve to have lower mortality rates, but it might also be (partly?) a function of how their keepers are breeding and managing them -- there's no guarantees either way.

similarly, SFHs here in the US are being kept in a much wider variety of climates and conditions than is likely in Sweden, and management styles undoubtedly vary -- so their genetics will continue shifting here.

Thank you for saying it so well. We all do things differently and, usually, according to what we want. We are all making changes to this landrace by the way we select who goes into the breeding pen. I am not a big fan of the crested chickens and I currently have only 2 crested hens...neither of them are in the yard that this baby came from...
This little guy hatched from an egg I collected from a coop that houses Orion and his girls, Sara Lee and Annabelle Lee. None of them are crested and, if memory serves, the Lee girls came from non crested parents. Orion's sire is my beloved Bazinga, a red uncrested roo. Because of his coloring,(brown milli) I had always thought that Orion's mother was either Pria or Amy, both also brown milli. I now think his mother may be my gold, crested hen Bernadette.
While I have always believed that just about anything was possible with these birds, this helps to prove it.

Any suggestions for names?

 

[ancientoaks]

just because one person on this list had a bad hatch doesn't mean it had anything to do with the gene for crest. To say it does is just jumping to conclusions and passing on information that may be false. just my opinion. I've bred crest to crest for years with no bad results and the Swedish flower hen shouldn't be any different than any other breed of chicken.

By breeding crested to non crested will give us a variety of young and give persons a choice if we choose to sell our young. My crested Swedish flower hens have free range and the crested birds are not being lost to predators

 

[ancientoaks]

half the gene pool isn't supposed to be non crested the breed is acceptable with or with out a crest. It is all a matter of what you prefer

 

[Leahs Mom]

All of you that know your genetics..

If I hatch an egg (for a barnyard layer) from a SFH Rooster/EE hen will I still get colored eggs?

 

[Bulldogma]

ancientoaks - the bad hatch of vaulted skull/crested chick was not an isolated incident. The reason it has been brought up time and again on this thread is because there is a trend.

As far as jumping to conclusions - when a trend has been identified it is no longer some random conclusion.

And I think my point (which I specifically pointed out was a theory) may have been missed.

DARWIN

When these birds were imported, it was noted that most of the flocks in the south of Sweden were uncrested. Greenfire farms had to find flocks from another area to get crested birds.

Yes - SFH may be crested or uncrested... but the flocks are from different areas and thus, have different gene pools.

Just because you can breed Silkies with vaulted skulls with no issue, it doesn't mean you can just as easily throw a vaulted skull onto a bird from a gene pool where such a thing was not present.

But you know what? Your flock is yours to do what ever you like with. If you get vaulted skulls from birds from both crested and uncrested backgrounds with no notable problems at all, that's great! We'll look forward to hearing all about it and reworking our various theories.

 

[ki4got]

All of you that know your genetics..

If I hatch an egg (for a barnyard layer) from a SFH Rooster/EE hen will I still get colored eggs?

if the blue egg gene in the hen is homozygous... it's dominant, so if she carries 2 copies then yes. if she was a cross of something else to begin with and only carries 1 copy, then 50/50.

as for your crested chick, I'd dare say that someone IS crested but very minimally that it's not really noticeable. I've seen some that were "not crested" but had slightly longer head feathers than normal... it's especially possible in roos, since their crests aren't usually horribly noticeable.