Sweet Smelling Breath and Panting Need help.

[SchwartzLakeFarmNC]

Fellow chicken crew, I have an 11th month old BielFelder Pullet which started showing some signs of possible sour crop or maybe something else in which I need the experience of this group.

Our Pullets are all on Nutrena all flock 20% pellets with free choice of oyster shell whenever they need it. 2x a week they get boiled eggs, yogurt and either tuna or calf manna for added protein.

This Pullet has had issues laying eggs since she started, she laid so many soft eggs we give her calcium pills which do help, but as soon as you stop them she will lay soft eggs on the poop board, sometimes 2 eggs at a time, so we know internal laying will most likely kill her at some point. Yesterday, my wife says her breath is like sweet corn, if you can image when you open a can of creamed corn, then you get what I'm talking about. We started giving her monostat twice daily as we felt she might have sour crop. She ate a little wet mash and scrambled egg, but doesn't seem interested in food at the moment, she does drink water and her poops were mostly normal looking until late today, when they became more watery. Her crop is very small, liquidly feeling.

We did start her on aquamox in case of infection as well.

Is my thinking right that maybe she has laid internally and is dealing with an infection maybe? The mouth open and heavy breathing along with the sweet corn smell has me stumped, anyone have any thoughts on what we might be dealing with or ideas to try. She does not have any parasites or worms, no other chicken is having any issues at all. Would respiratory be anything to consider?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

We did start her on aquamox in case of infection as well.

Is my thinking right that maybe she has laid internally and is dealing with an infection maybe? The mouth open and heavy breathing along with the sweet corn smell has me stumped

She does not have any parasites or worms

If her breath is still the same, will be moving to acidfied copper sulfate in hopes to kill the yeast causing the sour crop.

I'm not sure if I would give Acidified Copper Sulfate along with Amoxicillin. @coach723 @Eggcessive thoughts on that?

You just started treatment with Miconazole, it's given 2X a day for 7 days in a row, it's not going to work overnight.
Pick a treatment and stick with it, not fussing, just have seen folks jump from 1 remedy to the next in the same day or in just a day or two and are frustrated and upset that they aren't seeing results.

Yellow urates often can indicate something going on with the liver, but hard to know. If she has an infection, the Amoxicillin may be helpful.

Possible she's laid internally, usually they will stand around hunched, tail down and act like they don't feel well when they have laid internally, have EYP or are having some other reproductive difficulty.

As for her laying soft shelled eggs, often that's a hard one to get under control. If giving the extra calcium helps I'd continue with that.
What are you giving - Calcium Citrate, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Gluconate? How much?

As for worms, often you will not see worms in the poop unless there's a heavy infestation, then you might see roundworms or tapeworm proglottids. Otherwise, you'll never see them. Getting a fecal float through your vet will give you more information as to whether deworming is a good idea or not.

Both articles are very good in treating crop symptoms, it's a good idea to read them entirely to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...ntion-and-treatments-of-crop-disorders.67194/

 

[Auntiejessi3]

Update:
As the instructions directed in the other thread, attempted to get our pullet to "vomit" up anything in the crop but i't completely empty, nothing to come up. Gave another dose of monostat and aquamox. She doesn't eat, gave wet mash/yogurt/boiled egg mix but not very interested.

If her breath is still the same, will be moving to acidfied copper sulfate in hopes to kill the yeast causing the sour crop.

She feels "hot" almost like a fever. Anyone else have any ideas to try or have had anything like this before?

I just went through something eerily similar. I would not make her vomit anymore, it can cause them to aspirate. The monistat needs to be twice a day for a week. I hope she pulls through! I'm sure more knowledgeable folks will chime in.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/pullet-open-mouth-breathing.1615618/

 

[Eggcessive]

Good advice by Wyorp Rock. I think that occasionally we see some yellow urates if B vitamins are given (especially thiamine.) I have helped a chicken empty its crop, and I won’t do it again, since it is a very risky procedure that can cause aspiration and death.

 

[coach723]

In a quick search I could find no literature of a significant interaction between penicillin's and copper sulfate.
A link below to one study, about penicillin and copper added to chicks diet, at very low levels, where there didn't seem to be an issue. I don't know if that would apply at higher, actual theraputic levels.
I would aways use caution when administering more than one medication. And copper is toxic at too high of amounts.
Amoxicillin is generally very well tolerated.
I also, would continue the monistat, give it time.
Crop issues are usually not quick fixes, regardless of the underlying cause, and the actual cause can often be very challenging to identify.
Pertinent part starts on page 341.
https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com...31158510e5959505c5e&rr=87a787300d91507d&cc=us

 

[SchwartzLakeFarmNC]

I just went through something eerily similar. I would not make her vomit anymore, it can cause them to aspirate. The monistat needs to be twice a day for a week. I hope she pulls through! I'm sure more knowledgeable folks will chime in.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/pullet-open-mouth-breathing.1615618/

So if I'm looking at this poo correctly, either we are dealing with a reproductive issue or liver issue correct? Would Aquamox change the color of the urates?
Pullet ate a little today, perked up some but still not the same.

Any advice other than continue antibiotics, never seen a worm or cocci evidence, can I rule worms/cocci out most likely?

@Eggcessive
@TwoCrows
@Wyorp Rock

 

[SchwartzLakeFarmNC]

Thank you so much for your response. We knew we would eventually end up dealing with a reproductive issue down the road, never thought of Ecoli, not sure how she would have gotten into anything like that, they free range together in a fenced area so nothing they can actually get into.

Will continue the Aquamox for 1 week and go from there. I have other antibiotics too if we need to try something a little stronger.
Poor girl.

 

[TwoCrows]

Thank you so much for your response. We knew we would eventually end up dealing with a reproductive issue down the road, never thought of Ecoli, not sure how she would have gotten into anything like that, they free range together in a fenced area so nothing they can actually get into.

Will continue the Aquamox for 1 week and go from there. I have other antibiotics too if we need to try something a little stronger.
Poor girl.

Keep us posted!

 

[SchwartzLakeFarmNC]

Today's update.
Our pullet continues to slow down, still on day 4 of Aquamox and day 5 of monostat. Only poops are bright yellow and breath still smells sweet, she drinks and pecks at grass but hardly any wet mash, comb is flopped over and she basically stands around unless another chicken runs her off.

I believe she has internally laid and therefore is full of infection. She's pretty thin now and I will not want her to suffer knowing she most likely won't live long. We are going to give it one more day and if tomorrow she fails to improve I will cull her..
.dang I hate this part of chicken keeping.

 

[SchwartzLakeFarmNC]

Update:
As the instructions directed in the other thread, attempted to get our pullet to "vomit" up anything in the crop but i't completely empty, nothing to come up. Gave another dose of monostat and aquamox. She doesn't eat, gave wet mash/yogurt/boiled egg mix but not very interested.

If her breath is still the same, will be moving to acidfied copper sulfate in hopes to kill the yeast causing the sour crop.

She feels "hot" almost like a fever. Anyone else have any ideas to try or have had anything like this before?