RR88

In the Brooder
May 17, 2020
24
9
13
So yesterday took a turn for the worst, one of my BO -Daisy- (not the one with the yellow urates but her sister) has been limping the past 3 days I looked her over for cuts/breaks/slipped tendon/bumblefoot nothing soaked her leg in a Epsom salt bath and put her in a dog kennel. She was holding her foot up a lot the first day, walking with a limp and when she would run she’d kinda hop. Yesterday I let her out to observe her and she seemed a lot better she wasn’t holding her foot up hardly and was walking more normal until around 3:00 when I found her falling over like she was drunk landing on her side I took her into my basement and put her in a pack and play she has been puffed up but is walking normal now and eating/drinking

my lethargic 9 week old sapphire splash -Leia-who I mentioned in the original post wasn’t looking well yesterday at all she’s also puffed up and just laying down a lot, feathers are falling out super easy when I pat her (no mites or lice I’ve checked them all every couple days) she’s eating but not drinking on her own yesterday she’s like spacing out a lot.

so I start investing possibilities and I ripped opened their feed bag(naturewise chick starter/grower) and its clumpy no obvious signs of mold but it’s clumpy and had a rancid smell to it I think they might be suffering from botulism I only had a corner big enough for me to stick my scoop in the bag so I haven’t looked in it much, there was also another bag in the can underneath that bag of medicated chick feed from when the younger ones were in the house and that bag seems fine I was feeding that to the younger ones up until a week ago when they fully integrated because they had been on it for long enough to build up immunity and they were 8 weeks old and eating out of the big girls feeder so I just started giving everyone the naturewise feed because it was easier then lifting the bag out to get to the bag under it and I didn’t want the older girls eating medicated since there’s no need for it since they’ve been outside for 7-8 weeks, the feed has been kept in a galvanized metal trash can in my garage workshop but the backdoor has been opened a lot this week since I’ve been spending a lot more time out in the backyard with the chickens to keep an eye on them since I just fully integrated the 9 week olds to the 14 week olds last week even though they’ve been in the coop together for 5 weeks they were separated by plastic barrier fencing in the run and coop but mingled in the backyard supervised but the older ones are more territorial of the run so I’ve been keeping a close eye on them I think the humidity was getting in through From the door being opened so much and reacting with the metal trash can.

I put some ACV just a capful each and some activated charcoal in their waterers and this morning they seem to be a little bit better, last night I was having to put drops of water on the tip of Leia’s beak and got her to drink some water that way this morning she would drink from the waterer if I held it up to her

the 5 other chickens that are not being hospitalized in the basement seem fine minus Sadie who is the other BO that is passing the yellow urates but she honestly seems completely well but obviously has something going on if her urates are yellow

I am picking up new feed this morning, I bleached and rinsed all of their feeders and waterers and rinsed them well, I picked up every single crumb of feed off the run floor and Checked the backyard for any mushrooms or mold (we occasionally get these small white patches of fuzz in our yard after it’s rained a lot) and I’ve been very mindful of weeds we have Virginiacreeper that grows along our fence so we’ve been weeding that and disposing of it far from the yard. No poisonous plants in our yard or anything I’ve been very careful about that, my neighbor had a pest control truck in his yard earlier this week but I didn’t see them spray the yard but I did leave for a while so I’m going to talk to him today and just find out if they did or not so I can hopefully eliminate that from possible causes but I’m almost certain it was their feed.

From the hours of research yesterday I can up with potentially 4 different possibilities (I’m sure there’s more but these 4 seemed most fitting from what I found)
1.Botulism
2.Coccidiosis (did find the red in 1 poo yesterday although it resembled shed intestinal lining more than blood, and possibly was watermelon as someone suggested that and they did have watermelon the day before) but I know coccidiosis can cause lameness/lethargy/falling over
3. The dreaded mareks disease
4. Poisoning

both of the hospitalized girls are chirping quietly, moving slowly, puffed Up, hardly pooing (even before the charcoal, I know that can cause constipation so I didn’t add much to the water) droopy acting the BO Daisy had her wings forward and away from body (not hot in the basement) eyes look fine combs are good colors, Leia’s feathers are coming out easily and she’s spacing out
 

RR88

In the Brooder
May 17, 2020
24
9
13
So yesterday took a turn for the worst, one of my BO -Daisy- (not the one with the yellow urates but her sister) has been limping the past 3 days I looked her over for cuts/breaks/slipped tendon/bumblefoot nothing soaked her leg in a Epsom salt bath and put her in a dog kennel. She was holding her foot up a lot the first day, walking with a limp and when she would run she’d kinda hop. Yesterday I let her out to observe her and she seemed a lot better she wasn’t holding her foot up hardly and was walking more normal until around 3:00 when I found her falling over like she was drunk landing on her side I took her into my basement and put her in a pack and play she has been puffed up but is walking normal now and eating/drinking

my lethargic 9 week old sapphire splash -Leia-who I mentioned in the original post wasn’t looking well yesterday at all she’s also puffed up and just laying down a lot, feathers are falling out super easy when I pat her (no mites or lice I’ve checked them all every couple days) she’s eating but not drinking on her own yesterday she’s like spacing out a lot.

so I start investing possibilities and I ripped opened their feed bag(naturewise chick starter/grower) and its clumpy no obvious signs of mold but it’s clumpy and had a rancid smell to it I think they might be suffering from botulism I only had a corner big enough for me to stick my scoop in the bag so I haven’t looked in it much, there was also another bag in the can underneath that bag of medicated chick feed from when the younger ones were in the house and that bag seems fine I was feeding that to the younger ones up until a week ago when they fully integrated because they had been on it for long enough to build up immunity and they were 8 weeks old and eating out of the big girls feeder so I just started giving everyone the naturewise feed because it was easier then lifting the bag out to get to the bag under it and I didn’t want the older girls eating medicated since there’s no need for it since they’ve been outside for 7-8 weeks, the feed has been kept in a galvanized metal trash can in my garage workshop but the backdoor has been opened a lot this week since I’ve been spending a lot more time out in the backyard with the chickens to keep an eye on them since I just fully integrated the 9 week olds to the 14 week olds last week even though they’ve been in the coop together for 5 weeks they were separated by plastic barrier fencing in the run and coop but mingled in the backyard supervised but the older ones are more territorial of the run so I’ve been keeping a close eye on them I think the humidity was getting in through From the door being opened so much and reacting with the metal trash can.

I put some ACV just a capful each and some activated charcoal in their waterers and this morning they seem to be a little bit better, last night I was having to put drops of water on the tip of Leia’s beak and got her to drink some water that way this morning she would drink from the waterer if I held it up to her

the 5 other chickens that are not being hospitalized in the basement seem fine minus Sadie who is the other BO that is passing the yellow urates but she honestly seems completely well but obviously has something going on if her urates are yellow

I am picking up new feed this morning, I bleached and rinsed all of their feeders and waterers and rinsed them well, I picked up every single crumb of feed off the run floor and Checked the backyard for any mushrooms or mold (we occasionally get these small white patches of fuzz in our yard after it’s rained a lot) and I’ve been very mindful of weeds we have Virginiacreeper that grows along our fence so we’ve been weeding that and disposing of it far from the yard. No poisonous plants in our yard or anything I’ve been very careful about that, my neighbor had a pest control truck in his yard earlier this week but I didn’t see them spray the yard but I did leave for a while so I’m going to talk to him today and just find out if they did or not so I can hopefully eliminate that from possible causes but I’m almost certain it was their feed.

From the hours of research yesterday I can up with potentially 4 different possibilities (I’m sure there’s more but these 4 seemed most fitting from what I found)
1.Botulism
2.Coccidiosis (did find the red in 1 poo yesterday although it resembled shed intestinal lining more than blood, and possibly was watermelon as someone suggested that and they did have watermelon the day before) but I know coccidiosis can cause lameness/lethargy/falling over
3. The dreaded mareks disease
4. Poisoning

both of the hospitalized girls are chirping quietly, moving slowly, puffed Up, hardly pooing (even before the charcoal, I know that can cause constipation so I didn’t add much to the water) droopy acting the BO Daisy had her wings forward and away from body (not hot in the basement) eyes look fine combs are good colors, Leia’s feathers are coming out easily and she’s spacing out
The older girls started off on medicated as well (a small bag x2 because they didn’t have big bags at the time when I got the chicks when those bags ran out I bought them a bag of natures best organic feed when that was gone I bought this bag because they were sold out from the natures best Organic (I had 3 other chicks in their group of 6 total )but the 3 were rehomed because they were roosters) so the bag has been here for 5-6 weeks they’re about halfway through the bag since there was only 3 eating it. The younger girls didn’t eat that feed until last week. I’m tossing both bags even though the one seems fine it was in the same container so I have to assume it’s also contaminated. The feeders stay under a covered run and get taken out nightly and their waterers are dumped and cleaned nightly
 

Wyorp Rock

Hi Ya'll🙂
Premium Feather Member
Sep 20, 2015
32,677
44,266
1,262
Southern N.C. Mountains
Glad you investigated the feed and are throwing it out.

I would treat for Coccidiosis and give them a flush. See Laxative Solutions in this article. The activated charcoal may be the route to go, I'm just not sure, but the Molasses once may be more effective if they aren't pooping well since it's does have a laxative effect.
Once you flush, get them drinking the mixed Corid water, they need hydration - the Corid is mild and you can syringe it to them without worry of overdosing. http://extension.msstate.edu/content/solutions-and-treatments
 

RR88

In the Brooder
May 17, 2020
24
9
13
Glad you investigated the feed and are throwing it out.

I would treat for Coccidiosis and give them a flush. See Laxative Solutions in this article. The activated charcoal may be the route to go, I'm just not sure, but the Molasses once may be more effective if they aren't pooping well since it's does have a laxative effect.
Once you flush, get them drinking the mixed Corid water, they need hydration - the Corid is mild and you can syringe it to them without worry of overdosing. http://extension.msstate.edu/content/solutions-and-treatments
Yep I started corid already figured it can’t hurt and if they’re this bad now and it’s coccidiosis I don’t know how much longer they’d be able to go without treatment so I just went ahead and started treating the entire flock, also picked up B-12/vitamin k supplement (I know you shouldn’t give B2/thiamine while giving corid since it will render the corid Useless but would the b-12 be okay do you think?? Because I also found b-12 deficiencies show these same signs/symptoms I’m not putting anything in anyone’s water except the corid right now and they all only have one water source and I’ll remake it daily fresh for each individual/group. I bought a new bag of food this morning and made sure to actually open the bag all the way and check it thoroughly and smelt it before giving it to them and I’m storing it inside my actual house vs the garage.
I found some good info on molasses/Epsom salt/activated charcoal last night as different ways to flush/bind the toxins I will try the molasses today I did the charcoal last night but I don’t want to give that too much because of the possibility of making them constipated and I don’t know if it would mess up the corid in the water or keep their bodies from absorbing the corid properly so I’ll definitely go get molasses and try that. I’ve been going down and making sure the younger chicken gets a couple sips of water every 15-25 mins I have to hold the bowl right up to her mouth but she is willing to drink when I do that so I’m trying to get her to take at least 5/6 sips Everytime and she’s pooping more now

should I be trying to keep them cool or should I be putting heat lamps on them or just room temperature?? I have a fan available and 2 heat lamps I can fasten safely or I can just leave them be the way they are just not sure if either would benefit them more I’d assume since they’re not drinking just room temp or a fan but don’t want to cause more damage by blowing cold air on them or anything
 

RR88

In the Brooder
May 17, 2020
24
9
13
Yep I started corid already figured it can’t hurt and if they’re this bad now and it’s coccidiosis I don’t know how much longer they’d be able to go without treatment so I just went ahead and started treating the entire flock, also picked up B-12/vitamin k supplement (I know you shouldn’t give B2/thiamine while giving corid since it will render the corid Useless but would the b-12 be okay do you think?? Because I also found b-12 deficiencies show these same signs/symptoms I’m not putting anything in anyone’s water except the corid right now and they all only have one water source and I’ll remake it daily fresh for each individual/group. I bought a new bag of food this morning and made sure to actually open the bag all the way and check it thoroughly and smelt it before giving it to them and I’m storing it inside my actual house vs the garage.
I found some good info on molasses/Epsom salt/activated charcoal last night as different ways to flush/bind the toxins I will try the molasses today I did the charcoal last night but I don’t want to give that too much because of the possibility of making them constipated and I don’t know if it would mess up the corid in the water or keep their bodies from absorbing the corid properly so I’ll definitely go get molasses and try that. I’ve been going down and making sure the younger chicken gets a couple sips of water every 15-25 mins I have to hold the bowl right up to her mouth but she is willing to drink when I do that so I’m trying to get her to take at least 5/6 sips Everytime and she’s pooping more now

should I be trying to keep them cool or should I be putting heat lamps on them or just room temperature?? I have a fan available and 2 heat lamps I can fasten safely or I can just leave them be the way they are just not sure if either would benefit them more I’d assume since they’re not drinking just room temp or a fan but don’t want to cause more damage by blowing cold air on them or anything
Not drinking much on their own*
 

Wyorp Rock

Hi Ya'll🙂
Premium Feather Member
Sep 20, 2015
32,677
44,266
1,262
Southern N.C. Mountains
also picked up B-12/vitamin k supplement (I know you shouldn’t give B2/thiamine while giving corid since it will render the corid Useless but would the b-12 be okay do you think?? Because I also found b-12 deficiencies show these same signs/symptoms
B2 is Riboflavin. B1 is Thiamine. B12 is Cobalamin.
You are correct that extra B1 Thiamine should not be provided when treating with Corid.

What's your temperatures like?
When not well, 75-80F is a good temperature, but they need to be able to get cool if they need to.

I would only give the flush one time -whichever you choose, then push the Corid. They may have infection too - it's so very hard to know. Often a vet is not an option, so do the best you can.

B12 may be o.k. but I would not give a lot, a few drops a day should be sufficient.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...ens, a deficiency,as sources of methyl groups.
 

RR88

In the Brooder
May 17, 2020
24
9
13
B2 is Riboflavin. B1 is Thiamine. B12 is Cobalamin.
You are correct that extra B1 Thiamine should not be provided when treating with Corid.

What's your temperatures like?
When not well, 75-80F is a good temperature, but they need to be able to get cool if they need to.

I would only give the flush one time -whichever you choose, then push the Corid. They may have infection too - it's so very hard to know. Often a vet is not an option, so do the best you can.

B12 may be o.k. but I would not give a lot, a few drops a day should be sufficient.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/nutrition-and-management-poultry/vitamin-deficiencies-in-poultry#:~:text=In growing chickens, a deficiency,as sources of methyl groups.
Thanks for the info, I will avoid B1 while treating with corid. They’re in the workshop portion of the basement so it’s a little warmer I have a fan pushing air but not pointed directly on them it was 81 in there prior to the fan I just have it on medium. I’ll be checking on them throughout the night and will keep an eye on the temp in there, now that the suns down the room should cool a bit as well and I might have to turn the fan down.
I did the charcoal last night and bought the molasses should I also do that or not since I did the charcoal? They’ve been on corid water all day. The BO who was flopping around and staggering is acting antsy to get out of the pack n play she’s looking a lot better but very puffed up all over, yesterday she was the same size as my other BO today she looks significantly larger in comparison. The 9 week old is also very puffed up as well, when I saw puffed I’m not talking about ruffled feathers more like bloated I’m going to check crops tomorrow morning before they eat or drink anything as the younger girl’s crop looked very large today and felt firm (no hard) but she was eating a lot and not drinking a ton hopefully it’s empty by morning....I have the light off to simulate the natural day cycle to make sure they get enough rest tonight and not put extra stress on them I left it on all day today so they could eat/drink. I really appreciate the input as I’m completely new to all of this and no there’s no vet near me that sees chickens unfortunately, most everyone I know who has chickens hasn’t run into these issues or just culls at the first signs of illness so I just feel at a loss and refuse to just give up on them and let it play out without at least trying to help them if they can be helped....
 

Wyorp Rock

Hi Ya'll🙂
Premium Feather Member
Sep 20, 2015
32,677
44,266
1,262
Southern N.C. Mountains
I would see how they are in the morning. Try to get some photos of the overnight droppings.
Having air circulating is a good idea, as long as the fan isn't blowing directly on them, I think your good.
 

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