Tell me about your internal layers

[fiberart57]

Hello,
I'm sorry about the troubles your girls are having. Mine are only 13 months old and it's good to know what to look for.
I agree with all who have concerns about GMOs; not just in corn, but everywhere. I would love to feed my girls organic food but it's not available on the Western Slope of Colorado and it would be too cost prohibitive to have some shipped for six birds.

I have a question, though, about an issue not addressed here. I've not seen much about their age when they started to lay.

Anyway, to get to the question: What about forcing maturity? Before I got my chickens I got a lot of chicken books from the library and settled on purchasing the Storey's book by Gail Damerow. In the laying section she talks about adding oats to chicks diets at around eight weeks of age to slow down their growth so that internal organs can mature. Damerow says that this can reduce the problems associated with egg-laying; egg-bound, internal laying, etc., later in life.

I did this as suggested. When they were eight I would throw down some oats in the morning to fill them up before they started eating their chick starter and increased it as they got older until their diet was about 50% oats until they were about 18 weeks old when I switched to Flock Raiser.

My first egg came from my Australorpe when she was almost seven months old. The last one started laying when she was nine months. I've had two soft-shelled eggs since they started laying last November and both of them followed a period when I was gone and Grandpa Dan from next door was too enthusiastic with the scratch. (Hmmm. . . )

My point is that perhaps Damerow is correct in thinking that encouraging early laying, while great for we egg-eaters, is not so great for the hens.

What's other peoples' opinions on this? I'm still learning and am open to anything that might help my girls live to old age. (What the heck, I think I'm running a furry/feathered geriatric farm anyway.)


Mary

 

[Cynlynian]

well Im feeling really bad because I 'dispatched' my ailing girl.

She has been sick for so long and although two lots of antibiotics seems to have helped from all the info I've managed to discover that it would be inevitable that she would get sick again and die. I put her out in the garden today but she came back on the deck and sat in the sun by the door all tail down and shivery. We are in for more cold weather, and if I put her back with the flock now they would only bully her. she was in pain . . . but I feel stink that I didnt realise sooner what was up.

This was my first attempt at a cull and it didnt go too well. . . I feel so bad that maybe she suffered more at my hands than she should've. . . I guess next time I'll be more thorough.

I will be keeping a closer eye on my remaining flock and any sign of egg bound or soft shell will try and prevent the prolonged agony the poor girl nust have been in. I remember finding a 'rubber egg' ages ago in an outside nest - at the time I though was a puff-ball (fungi) if only i had known then and got some antibiotics I may have helped.

I guess this is the result of having chickens bred to be heavy egg producers. I know the same ones go into the egg farms, but they start afresh each year - ie cull the year old flock, so that is probably because they know the pitfalls that can occur wwhen their insides get so messed up.

RE the food fed i thought I was giving a balance with having them free range and lots of veges(raw) and cooked kitchen scraps. hmm. I do have a recipe for layer mash (never got around to making it tho) anf chick mash if anyone is interested

*sigh*

Cynthia

 

[Jaguaress]

So sorry for everyone's losses. Y'all are doing the best you can. This is a good thread for education and understanding.

Cynthia, if you would please post those two recipes, I would greatly appreciate it, as countless others undoubtably would, too. Thank you.

 

[speckledhen]

Cynthia, I'm so sorry your first few posts had to be on this subject. Most of my hatchery stock is gone and thankfully, except for Ivy and Ginger, the few left seem to be laying just fine. The only real issue with any of them is Ivy's sister, Lexie, has gnarly arthritic feet, but that's just age creeping up on her and Ginger hasn't laid an egg in a year after we administered heavy penicillin (she is a bit thin and a bit sleepy at times, but no big abdomen, almost like she ran out of eggs).

As far as breeds go, all the ones I've already lost have been RIRs and Wyandottes. Ivy and Lexie are Barred Rocks, Ginger and Sunny are Buff Orpingtons, Caroline and Miranda three year old Brahmas and my only banty, a Cochin named Shadow--all from the same hatchery. Brahmas and Cochins are not the main egg production hatchery birds so maybe they won't have the same issues. My little Cochin/Silkie x BR hen Olivia is the only non-hatchery girl here who has had this issue. She is not in good shape right now, but is still trucking along with her huge belly and has good color. We may try to drain more fluid off her soon. That sure helped Ivy.

 

[Jeeper1540]

Cinnamon Queen (red sex link)

14 Months

Hatchery means from the feed store right? i got mine at the feed store

 

[speckledhen]

Hatchery means from the feed store right? i got mine at the feed store

No, not always. Most feed stores get chicks from hatcheries, but some get theirs from local folks (not safe in my opinion) or they get chics directly from the hatchery and skip the feed store. .​

 

[Cynlynian]

Quote:
Here is the info I have. Not to say that I have tried it - the scale seemed a bit large - I guess you could easily make smaller quantities, it is just that feed suppliers tend to only sell in bulk. Maybe you could make up and on-sell smaller amounts to a group of folk? The mik powder is a bit boggling - it can be really expensive, even for us here in NZ where we have cows a plenty and export heaps of milk powder. we also had a shortage of oatmeal here for a while - all the farmers have been planting canola for oil in Australia, and then not a very good season here in NZ. I could only buy rolled oats, no oatmeal for several months. (thats to feed me not my chickens!)

Laying Mash

50 kg (1 cwt) wheat meal
50 kg (1 cwt) maize meal (preferably yellow maize)
50 kg (1 cwt) other grain meal (oats, barley or rye)
50 kg (1cwt) fish meal
13.5 kg (30 lb)) dried milk
9 kg (20 lb) ground seashells
2.3 kg (5 lb) salt

Give them free access to this, and a handful each of whole grains to scratch out of their straw or litter.

Fattening Mash for cockerels or capons

Barley meal is the best fattener for any poultry, but can be replaced by boiled potatoes. Skimmed milk is also ideal:

150 kg (3 cwt) barely meal
50 kg (1 cwt) wheat meal
25 kg (1/2 cwt) fish or meat meal
13 kg (30 lb) dried milk plus some time (ground sea shells and salt)


Little chick mash

13 kg (30 lb) meal (preferably a mixture of wheat, maize and oats)
5 kg (12 lb) fish meal or meat meal
5kg (12 lb) alfalfa (Lucerne) meal
0.9 kg (2 lb) ground seashells
0.5 kg (1 lb) cod liver oil
0.5 kg (1 lb) salt
plus a ‘scratch’ of finely cracked cereals

If you give your chickens plenty of milk (whole preferably, but skimmed is nearly as good) you can forget all but a little of the cod liver oil, the alfalfa meal, and half, if not all the fish meal or meat meal.

Reference:
Pg 131 The Concise guide to self sufficiency, John Seymour (1976) published by DK,

Hope this helps

Cynthia

 

[Cynlynian]

Hi

still reading John Seymour

He says

"Hens running free on good grass will do very well in summer time just throw them some grain. In winter they will need a protein suppliment. . . feed them fish meal, meat meal, soya meal, other bean meal, or fish offal. I would actually recommend soya meal most of all, because soya is the best balanced of any vegetable protein. . . soya must be cooked. . . [remember John is writing in 1970s pre GE modified crops] . . . sunflowers are good too if you can husk and grind it... lupin seed, either ground or whole, rape seed (but not too much of it), linseed, groundnut or cottonseed (but this must be cooked), ground or crushed peas or beans, lucerne or alfalfa, or alfalfa meal. these all contain protein)"

I have been feeding wheat at night, during day 'layers pellets' from the grain store, plus any cooked vegetables etc- kitchen scraps also silverbeet (swiss chard)

hope this helps people - probably should be in another thread now!

Cynthia

 

[kayri]

Just wanted to add my two bits about internal layers

My 4 year old black sex-link Midnight. I took her to 2 vets who both diagnosed egg yolk- peritonitis. . The first vet I talked to drained about 320 ml of fluid from her abdominal cavity. It was opaque and yellowish. She also put her on Baytril (antibiotic) and and Metacam (am anti- inflammatory) (total cost $120). She said these were temporary measures and i should check with the second vet for either a hormone or surgical intervention. I did and he recommended a hormonal intervention to prevent her from ovulationg (3 shots of Lupron, 1 week apart), but said we would know if it was effective after about 6 months. he did not recommend the surgical intervention because he said it was easy to give a chicken a hysterectomy, but very difficult to get rid of the egg yolk once it has been infused through the abdominal cavity. Our only hope was to prevent any further ovulation and hope that she would absorb the egg yolk. We would know within 6 months. (total cost for his visit plus the 3 shots of hormone $225). I gave her the 3 shots, he drained her abdomen one more time, but two weeks after the last shot we had her put down because she was so weak and uncomfortable and her abdomen was swelling up again. I don' think there is anything you can do for an internal layer. I don't think I'd do the shot thing again, but I had to try once.

Kay

 

[chickenlady08]

I just took my Delaware hen to my vet last Friday the 11th. She took and xray and sure enough she could see an egg in there. I couldn't feel it because of her abdomen being swollen and rather hard not squishy. She kept her and finallly got to do the surgery that afternoon. She was hoping that she could just gloved hand go up and crush the egg, but that was a not an option for her. she performed the surgery and stitched her abdomen up. she had 2 LBS of egg yoke that her body definitely wasn't going to absorb. Inside of all of this egg yoke was 1 perfectly shelled brown egg and on the opposite side of that egg was another shell less egg (fully formed but just didn't have the shell on it) I was totally amazed at how large that mass of yokes and eggs were. My hen acted like everything was fine. She had not been lethargic, sluggish and was eating and drinking like nothing was wrong. the whole procedure cost me $189. She only charged me for the sutures, the xray, and the anesthesia. I was totally expecting upwards in the hundreds but thankfully it wasn't. But the way I see it my chickens are my pets and I take care of my dogs and cats with adequate vet care so my chickens shall also.

Oh and my hen is doing wonderful. I have her in a seclusion coop for the injured hens I have. She is inside of a smaller cage with water and lots of food and greens. I let her out to stretch her legs and she got to free range Monday night and she is her old self. She is a very sweet girl. And I struggled with should I have the surgery or just put her down. I said since the Delawares are not a very common breed and she is a sweet girl she is worth it.

I wish everyone the best of luck with there internal layers.

And to those of you that have lost hens I am so very sorry for your losses.