Texas

[SlipsWife]

They all look normal except the frizzle. Feathers grow in tracts, with completely bald areas between the tracts of feathers. Pick up a fully feathered bird and separate the feathers and you will see maybe half, a third of the bird has bare skin. That's normal. They also molt and grow the feathers in that tract as a group. The back feathers seem to me to be the last to feather out in chicks.

Your frizzle looks like it has a double copy of the gene for frizzling. I hope I'm wrong. The frizzle gene is an incompletely dominant gene. One copy of the gene paired with a normal feathering gene makes that beautiful frizzle with a wide feather curling away from the body. Two copies of the gene produce a "frazzle" or "curlie" which has a thin, weak, brittle feathers very susceptible to mechanical damage. Often all that will be left of the feather is the hard wiry shaft. Their feathers will look dull, oily and matted. If you handle them, feather parts will break off. They have a lot of trouble surviving because they have very little protection from the cold.

Frizzle birds should never be bred to frizzle birds unless whoever is doing the breeding is prepared to deal with the resulting 25% frazzle birds. Serious breeders will do it and cull the frazzles. I know hatcheries are doing it because their catalogs advertise that their chicks will be 75% frizzled and 25% will be smooth. The only way to get that ratio of frizzles is to be breeding frizzle to frizzle.

A proper frizzle breeding will have one normal frizzle parent (genetically Ff, with "F" being the gene for frizzle and "f" being the gene for smooth, normal feathering) and a smooth (ff with two copies of the smooth feathering gene "f"). With that breeding half will be frizzle (Ff) and the other half will be smooth (ff). If you breed frizzle (Ff) to frizzle (Ff) you get 25% smooth (ff), 50% frizzle (Ff) and 25% frazzle (FF). If someone doesn't understand how I got these ratios, I will be happy to try to explain.

I have two hatchery frazzles. They spent the winter in my house, the most naked one in my kitchen where she laid an egg almost every day. I had her out with a flock of only pullets when one day my Silkie and (frazzled) Cochin cockerels escaped from their bachelor pen. Everyone was so happy, I left them all together. I put an apron on the frazzled pullet and thought that would be enough protection for her. I was wrong. Between the cockerels grabbing the back of her neck and the apron wearing off her feathers, she ended up basically naked. She is just starting to molt her broken feathers. She is kept in the house at night and in the day is out with my Ameraucana chicks in the parrot aviary. Here are some pictures of her:



Before the cockerels and the protective apron broke all her feathers off:


I will breed (artificial insemination) this frazzled pullet to my show quality smooth feathered Cochin and get 100% frizzled birds. It has been a struggle and quite an inconvenience to keep my two frazzled birds alive this winter.

I hope I am wrong about your frizzle. Can you send some better pictures? The dull, oily looking feathers are what is worrying me the most. Chicks, frizzles included, should have healthy, bright shiny feathers. Frazzles don't. Do the feathers seem to break easily? If you pick the chick up and look at it's feathers, do you have bits of broken feathers on your lap? I really hope I'm wrong.

I was hoping you would see the pictures I posted.

I told my husband I was afraid it was a frazzle. I will try to get better pictures today. We don't handle it very often so I'm not sure how brittle the feathers actually are. We also have a frizzled hen from Privett that has wing feathers that remind me of porcupine quills, I wonder if she's a frazzle also? I don't plan to sell either one, I personal am not sure if anyone would want them, and will try to make sure they aren't with a cockerel or others might bother them.

I do like the idea of breeding a smooth feathered with the frazzled and getting frizzles but I'm not sure if that's something I'm going to get into...but it sounds fun...hmmmm...I really don't need to...but I want to...

I'm confusing myself, one minute I just want them to be healthy happy birds and the next I'm thinking about all of the cute chicks I might get...That being said, our hen didn't start laying until almost exactly a year old, from what I've read cochins can be great layers or not so much, with a hatchery cochin I really thought she'd be a great layer. Since she started she's laying 4 a week, she just made us wait a year to get started.

On the other chicks with slow back feathering, have you found the 'theory' that they are cockerels to be true for you? I have 3 standard cochins in the mix, different colors, that I'm wanting to hang onto but they seem to have naked backs. I was hoping its a breed trait and due to their large size but if more than likely they're going to be cockerels, I need to save myself from getting to attached...We plan on processing most of our males this year ourselves but right now, while they are all so friendly its going to be hard. I agree with your theory that I know we are giving them a good life, feeding them well, and we should be the ones to benefit from them, not someone else but its hard not to have 'favorites'. Of course, once hormones kick in, they might not be so cute!

 

[SlipsWife]

Another thing we did for them was took a 9x13 cake pan and put sandy dirt from the yard plus bits of weeds and grass in it and put it in the brooder cage, they had a ball playing and scratching and hunting for bugs and stuff.
The dirt is perfect chick grit, the activity keeps them from getting bored and pecking each other plus they get exposed to the ground they will eventually be walking on, that helps them build immunity to pathogens in the soil. .Hope that is helpful. Magpie

I will definitely do this with our next group! We usually take them out, depending on weather, for a little while a couple of times a day to walk around but it would be easier to just bring the dirt to them.

 

[SlipsWife]

Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me it makes me feel better about having the grow out pen built.
And I think that happens with all things in life the best laid plans and all.

Congrats on the eggs! I cant wait to see how things go.

Have you tried giving protein treats? I read that feathers are mostly protein (dont remember where) so a picker may just be looking for a dietary supplement. It makes sense to me during a molt but I am not sure about Chicks I do give all of mine scrambled egg with almond milk 2 times a week.

I told DH I wasn't ready for new chicks yet and He insisted our granddaughter needed them! (TSC) I wanted to Choose my next breeds carefully with research not get what the cute boy could rope from the bin. She loves them, He is a hero and I get to worry about all the details so DH will be buying supplies and building this weekend.

Another thing that is confusing me is that I do FF have been for a month. Started with the new chicks. My Ladies love it haven't touched pellets in the coop since I started. However I add the Layer Crumbles right to the FF and I am not sure with a mixed age group how and what to feed them or if I need to separate for feeding?

When they all mix together to free range do they go back to separate houses for the night?

We do have meal worms that we offer when trying to get them to come to us but we really don't give them many. I might cook up some extra eggs and give them to them over the next week. I know they must be going through some sort of growth spurt because they are eating a lot more than they have been.

I've looked into FF but haven't started it. I believe most people feed a mixed age group grower or flock raiser and then offer oyster shell on the side. When we first added the younger group in with the older group we had layer feed in the older group and grower/starter in the younger groups feeder, I noticed that they usually went to the feeder they normally used. I'm not sure if its because they are 2 different style feeders and they went to the one they were use to or if they noticed a difference in the feed. I would occasionally see them tasting out of the other feeder but not a lot. Now they all have the same feed and everyone seems to just eat out of the nearest feeder. That could be because they've gotten use to there being feed in more than one place. We bought one bag of pellets, our older girls were not happy so we still buy crumble. I never thought chickens would be finicky. Of course, if not given anything else, they will eventually eat what's out.

I truly think that a lot of the "information" that is shared around the internet on sites claiming to be chicken experts is a bunch of BS. Then it spreads by word of mouth, without any scientific study results or proof to support it. By the time it gets to me, most people cannot even tell me where they got the info from (for example, a vet journal or study run by a university). They read it on some chicken keeper's blog (you know exactly which blog I am talking about too!), and they take it as gospel to the point of being ugly to someone else who does things differently.

That's why I always try to start with, "What we do" or "What's worked for us".

I've read a couple of the chicken keepers blogs and thought how in the world have my chickens survived?!

 

[Ms Jellybean]

You can also use a salt substitute to make an electrolyte solution.

Has anyone heard that ACV shouldn't be given in the heat?

Here is an article on hot weather care for chickens. It tells why you should not give ACV in the heat.


Edit: This article (backed up with documentation) says not to give it at all. It does mention that there may be some benefits t o using it, but not enough research on chickens has been done.

 

[jajeanpierre]

We also have a frizzled hen from Privett that has wing feathers that remind me of porcupine quills, I wonder if she's a frazzle also?


On the other chicks with slow back feathering, have you found the 'theory' that they are cockerels to be true for you?

It might be a frazzle or the wing feathers might just have been beaten up by life. A frizzle's feathers don't follow the contour of their body and stick out away from the body so are more likely to suffer from damage than a smooth feathered bird's feathers. The older the feather, the more damage it has been subjected to. The primary feathers--the outermost wing feathers--have the strongest quill so the feather won't bend at all when it bangs up against something solid so I suspect suffer a lot more damage than the more flexible body/tail feathers, even when a normal frizzle. It is on the outside of the bird at the bird's widest part, so it will also get banged and rubbed the most. If you look at pictures of show frizzles, you will often see that the often primary feathers are damaged and sometime just quills at the end.

Take a picture of that bird's feathers. Do you have roosters running with her?

I don't know about the feathering speed being a determination of their sex. If it is true, I would expect differences between breeds. When I got my last order of Ameraucana chicks, I tried to sex them when they came by the size of their toes. (Thin small toes mean pullet.) Then when they started feathering, I checked by their feathering and it seemed to be exactly opposite the sexing using the toe size method. Most of the vet-wrap bands for toes size method are still on the chicks. I didn't mark them by feathering method, just making a mental note that it was opposite to what I had guessed with the toe size. I suspect there is some validity to both methods with a lot of variation for individual birds.

I feel your pain about slaughter. Unfortunately it is a necessary evil of chicken keeping. Sometimes their hormones make it really easy to make that decision.

 

[Shybug]

I was born in Galveston Texas anybody live there

 

[bnjrob]

People need to look at things a little more skeptically instead of taking everything they see as gospel just because it "looks" like it is authoritative. Yes, I do rely on information from studies that were planned and implemented properly in order to form some opinions. However I know from education and experience that even the best looking clinical research study can have results that are skewed just because the researcher was biased one way or another and wanted the study result to come out a certain way. There are studies every day, all over the world, that contradict someone else's study. These contradictions could be due to a flawed study, a biased researcher, contaminated research, or one tiny change in a variable that significantly impacts everything else.

People need to use understand that while there are some things that are concrete, black and white, many things are gray areas and there are a zillion ways to raise chickens. Some are better than others, but it doesn't mean that they are outright wrong. As RustonPoultry mentioned, situations are different and there are many variables in every situation that need to be accounted for. Our chickens do not live in highly controlled laboratory environments. Chickens have survived for a very long time without human coddling, I think they'll be ok if people will employ more common sense instead of knee jerk reactions every time they read something.

 

[TammyTX]

Edit: This article (backed up with documentation) says not to give it at all. It does mention that there may be some benefits t o using it, but not enough research on chickens has been done.

...yeah, I just looked at the links....

I've had chickens for a loooong time, but haven't used ACV consistently.

The first link is a blog who quotes her "expertise" as being a "fifth generation chicken keeper"...it reminds me of people who say they come from a "long line of bakers"... that doesn't make YOU a good baker, if you see my meaning...but she still does give ACV in the summer, just not as much - if I skimmed the article correctly.

The second link had some info but was basically an advertisement for a watering system.

Maybe I should have been more specific and asked for personal experience? I understand you were trying to be helpful, but there is more to chicken keeping than Googling information and regurgitating it in links.

 

[magpiesing]

I consulted my Fresh Eggs Daily book concerning summer heat. Ph of the water is important because as was stated when they get hot they pant and that raises CO2 levels hence acidosis but if your water is already hard like mine then a little ASV is good all the time. If your water is already acidic then bicarb will bring it up. So alot depends on your water. Pedialyte or electrolytes are best but what is more important is temperature.

Also smaller birds fair betterr than heavy birds. Birds with larger combs and wattle do better to. Chickens don't sweat. They use their respiratory system to cool off as well as spreading the feathers.
Chickens prefer cool water 55 degrees. when it gets hot and the water gets near 90 degrees chickens quit drinking and will dehydrate. Putting ice in their water helps. Giving them a kiddie pool to walk in and dunk their heads in helps them stay cool. Frozen milk jugs or big soda bottles put in the coop especially at night cools the air. They will perch on the bottles to cool their feet and bodies. Also adding a fan blowing across frozen bottles of water will help. Also it recommends NOT feeding alot of corn in the summer, but regular feed and lots of fresh veggies like melons and herbs. You can make treats by freezing fruits and veggies in ice cube trays and offering that in the summer. Anything to keep them cool and drinking.

If you want to check your water buy an aquarium PH testing kit. i get mine at the pet shop. It has a bottle of test solution, a vial and a chart. it's about $4. Well worth the investment if you are worried about your water PH. Magpie

 

[TammyTX]

If you want to check your water buy an aquarium PH testing kit. i get mine at the pet shop. It has a bottle of test solution, a vial and a chart. it's about $4. Well worth the investment if you are worried about your water PH. Magpie

I've never thought about using an aquarium PH test kit. Thanks for the tip. I'm pretty sure we have alkaline water if the coating of lime in my teapot is any indication.