Théo and the chickens des Sauches

[Perris]

Léa doesn't want to eat the chick's starter. I gave her grains and she enthusiastically gave some to the chicks...whoops...

I've also found that a broody will direct her chicks to eat the adults’ feed, but the chicks largely ignore it in my experience (perhaps intuiting that the whole grains are too big for their system to comfortably manage). I base my chick feed on recipes in old poultry manuals, which you may or may not find useful or interesting; the broodies here all like it so I don't need to offer them their usual feed as well.

For the first week, chicks here are offered chopped boiled egg, milk- or fermented-feed-liquor- soaked breadcrumbs, and oatmeal, mixed into a crumble. Thereafter I add, increasing in quantity and variety as the weeks progress, fresh curd or plain natural yogurt, live mealworms (small ones), mashed tinned sardines, peanut butter, currants, polenta or semolina, smashed Weetabix or Shredded wheat (local whole wheat breakfast cereals), and smashed dry high protein dog or cat food. They forage with the broody all day too of course and eat whatever she identifies as food.

Chicks eat little and often, befitting the tiny size of all constituent parts of their anatomy. Supplied food is presented in small particle size or of soft consistency. It is easiest to eat in a crumbly consistency, not a powder, and not so wet that it sticks to the beak. When they are out on the ground, their broody will find and direct them to eat grit, hopefully of an appropriate size, but they use their own judgement too.

Inclusion of some live yogurt soon after hatch will inoculate the chicks’ gut with lactobacilli (at least), which will help them deal with the coccidia that they are bound to encounter outside. The broody may direct them to consume some dried chicken poop for the same reason (faecal transplant to get good bacteria into the chicks’ gastrointestinal tracts). Yum

 

[ManueB]

I've also found that a broody will direct her chicks to eat the adults’ feed, but the chicks largely ignore it in my experience (perhaps intuiting that the whole grains are too big for their system to comfortably manage). I base my chick feed on recipes in old poultry manuals, which you may or may not find useful or interesting; the broodies here all like it so I don't need to offer them their usual feed as well.

For the first week, chicks here are offered chopped boiled egg, milk- or fermented-feed-liquor- soaked breadcrumbs, and oatmeal, mixed into a crumble. Thereafter I add, increasing in quantity and variety as the weeks progress, fresh curd or plain natural yogurt, live mealworms (small ones), mashed tinned sardines, peanut butter, currants, polenta or semolina, smashed Weetabix or Shredded wheat (local whole wheat breakfast cereals), and smashed dry high protein dog or cat food. They forage with the broody all day too of course and eat whatever she identifies as food.

Chicks eat little and often, befitting the tiny size of all constituent parts of their anatomy. Supplied food is presented in small particle size or of soft consistency. It is easiest to eat in a crumbly consistency, not a powder, and not so wet that it sticks to the beak. When they are out on the ground, their broody will find and direct them to eat grit, hopefully of an appropriate size, but they use their own judgement too.

Inclusion of some live yogurt soon after hatch will inoculate the chicks’ gut with lactobacilli (at least), which will help them deal with the coccidia that they are bound to encounter outside. The broody may direct them to consume some dried chicken poop for the same reason (faecal transplant to get good bacteria into the chicks’ gastrointestinal tracts). Yum

Very interesting. I remembered some of it when you shared on Shadrach's thread.
I did give Léa some soaked bread with scrambled eggs Saturday morning but the chicks were too tiny to eat.
Unfortunately we have an egg shortage . Only Nougat of the ex-batts is still laying regularly, Merle is going broody, and Piou-piou's eggs are under antibiotics withdrawal for a month.

What is fermented feed liquor ? We don't drink milk, I don't have any at home.
Also, the yogurt we eat is the raw sheep and goat local yogurt. When do you think I can introduce them to that ? I don't know much about human babies but I seem to remember they are not supposed to eat raw milk/ eggs/ meat .

 

[Perris]

fermented feed liquor is the opaque liquid that started as plain tap water added to the grain and peas being set to ferment, which contains the so-called anti-nutritional factors drawn out of said grains and peas (they in turn are the chemicals the plant uses to try to protect it from being digested, so that even if eaten it is excreted whole and another plant can grow from it, instead of it being digested by an animal), and some starch drawn out of the grains/peas, and some lactobacilli and other friendly microbes.

My chicks last year (when I did home made chick feed for the 1st time) were offered live yogurt from week 2, but I'll offer some from the start next time. They have such tiny appetites - they're digesting the absorbed yolk for the first 3 days! - it's really about inoculating their guts rather than nutrition at that stage I think, and a single beakful will supply plenty of microbes.

 

[ManueB]

fermented feed liquor is the opaque liquid that started as plain tap water added to the grain and peas being set to ferment, which contains the so-called anti-nutritional factors drawn out of said grains and peas (they in turn are the chemicals the plant uses to try to protect it from being digested, so that even if eaten it is excreted whole and another plant can grow from it, instead of it being digested by an animal), and some starch drawn out of the grains/peas, and some lactobacilli and other friendly microbes.

My chicks last year (when I did home made chick feed for the 1st time) were offered live yogurt from week 2, but I'll offer some from the start next time. They have such tiny appetites - they're digesting the absorbed yolk for the first 3 days! - it's really about inoculating their guts rather than nutrition at that stage I think, and a single beakful will supply plenty of microbes.

Thank you for all the information. I will try a pinch of yogurt and the soaked bread tomorrow.
We were absent for lunch and when I came back I saw Léa had pooped again. So tomorrow we will try to get her to come out. I think she hasn't grasped that she can use the ramp to get out, in fact she barely gets up, moves two steps, and goes back to nesting position.

The chicks are doing ok as far as I can tell, but the lighter dark one seem to be a little slower, smaller and more often under the hen. Maybe he still needs permanent heat and that's why she doesn't move ? I thought broodies tended to stop caring for chicks too fragile. I hope she isn't sick, but she doesn't look like it, more like she's stressed.

I haven't talked about the four new chickens. We are separating them for two weeks at least, maybe three if we manage to keep it up. They are in the barn, and we lock the other chickens in when we let those out, so they are not tempted to go meet, but of course it's not a truly effective quarantine to protect them, because Gaston, Merle and Piou-piou have been around everywhere just before they arrived. I'm finding that they are not as healthy as I would like, not that they have shown any sign yet of respiratory disease, but they seem somewhat unkempt, and tattered, they smell bad and eat a huge amount of commercial feed as if they were starving. I think the breeder we got them from likely doesn't keep their birds in great conditions. They do seem used to be outside, because they have the right attitude (checking in the air , staying under cover, staying together). I've checked them for parasites and couldn't find any, but I will be checking again regularly, and they need to be dewormed.
I am still expecting them to drop dead every morning so I haven't given them names.

 

[Perris]

eat a huge amount of commercial feed as if they were starving

this is a clear sign that there's something they know they need which is not present in sufficient quantity in the feed, so they are eating as much of it as required until that specific perceived need is satisfied. I'd offer them some cat food, yogurt or other animal protein source and see what, if anything, the consequences are.

they smell bad

not a good sign. Have they got their own dustbath?

a truly effective quarantine to protect them

an academic point, but surely you want to be protecting your existing flock from whatever they're bringing with them (given they smell and yours don't) rather than vice versa?
If they're sharing the same ground, just at different times, it's not quarantine at all.

Hopefully they'll be fine and integration will go smoothly, but quarantine is a bit like pregnancy; it's an either / or state, not a spectrum.

 

[ManueB]

this is a clear sign that there's something they know they need which is not present in sufficient quantity in the feed, so they are eating as much of it as required until that specific perceived need is satisfied. I'd offer them some cat food, yogurt or other animal protein source and see what, if anything, the consequences are.

Yes, I will. I also thought something is missing but not sure if it's calcium or protein ; I thought I'd wait for a few days to give them food so different from what they have eaten up to now.

not a good sign. Have they got their own dustbath?

Yes, they dustbathe a lot, and I believe their smell is progressively wearing off, so it could be that they were overcrowded.

an academic point, but surely you want to be protecting your existing flock from whatever they're bringing with them (given they smell and yours don't) rather than vice versa?
If they're sharing the same ground, just at different times, it's not quarantine at all.

They are not sharing the same ground as the new chickens are above next to the barn, but on ground that has been much frequented very recently by the three younger chickens. But I can't be 100 % sure that those three younger chickens don't make an excursion up there while I'm watching the chicks, though I try to check closely, as they are able to cross our nettings. Which is why I lock the newer chickens up alternately with Gaston and Merle. Piou-piou we are leaving in the field under when she's outside so she can't meet with Gaston.
The only way we could have done a really effective quarantine would be to keep the new chickens completely locked up in the barn, and I didn't have the heart for it. And it wouldn't have really protected them, since Gaston and Merle were in the barn the days before they arrived.

Hopefully they'll be fine and integration will go smoothly, but quarantine is a bit like pregnancy; it's an either / or state, not a spectrum.

Which is why I was pondering if it was any use at all doing it the way we are. It's a mess for us and not sure it will be effective but now we have begun it would be stupid not to go through at least 15 days.

And by the way, I would never have heard of quarantine if I hadn't been on BYC- it's completely unheard of here. I can imagine professional or people who show birds do it but not backyard chicken keepers. I never read about it on any french sites. But it does seem a basic biosecurity measure.

 

[RoyalChick]

Yes, I will. I also thought something is missing but not sure if it's calcium or protein ; I thought I'd wait for a few days to give them food so different from what they have eaten up to now.

Yes, they dustbathe a lot, and I believe their smell is progressively wearing off, so it could be that they were overcrowded.

They are not sharing the same ground as the new chickens are above next to the barn, but on ground that has been much frequented very recently by the three younger chickens. But I can't be 100 % sure that those three younger chickens don't make an excursion up there while I'm watching the chicks, though I try to check closely, as they are able to cross our nettings. Which is why I lock the newer chickens up alternately with Gaston and Merle. Piou-piou we are leaving in the field under when she's outside so she can't meet with Gaston.
The only way we could have done a really effective quarantine would be to keep the new chickens completely locked up in the barn, and I didn't have the heart for it. And it wouldn't have really protected them, since Gaston and Merle were in the barn the days before they arrived.

Which is why I was pondering if it was any use at all doing it the way we are. It's a mess for us and not sure it will be effective but now we have begun it would be stupid not to go through at least 15 days.

And by the way, I would never have heard of quarantine if I hadn't been on BYC- it's completely unheard of here. I can imagine professional or people who show birds do it but not backyard chicken keepers. I never read about it on any french sites. But it does seem a basic biosecurity measure.

I would try it for at least ten days to protect your existing flock if you can manage it.
If you stay clearly focused on protecting your existing flock then it will be easier to develop routines that prevent your current flock from going near them.
Also remember your shoes and outer clothes.
I quarantined the Math Majors when Barb gave them to me and it was a real pain so I definitely empathize!

 

[ManueB]

So the experience with food went as followed.
Léa was utterly enthusiastic about the bread soaked in feed liquor and she gave it all to the chicks- it was gobbled up in a minute.
The yogurt she very firmly forbade them to touch, even pecking my finger away when I tried to give it to one, and she ate it all herself !
She has thrown out all the starter feed from the small plate and chick feeder and has them scratching around the hay to pick it from the floor .
She is up on her feet and moving around the brooder but she doesn't want them to go out at all. I was hoping she would but clearly it's not going to happen before at least another day.

And with the new chickens they left the yogurt and ham untouched but they ate the mash with cat and starter feed mixed in. I'm not surprised, it took my three months old Ex-batt almost a month to try something else than layer feed.

I would try it for at least ten days to protect your existing flock if you can manage it.
If you stay clearly focused on protecting your existing flock then it will be easier to develop routines that prevent your current flock from going near them.
Also remember your shoes and outer clothes.
I quarantined the Math Majors when Barb gave them to me and it was a real pain so I definitely empathize!

It wouldn't be such a pain if we didn't have to also separate both roosters and Piou-piou and watch the chicks, but we got what we asked for ! My partner has taken an extra job again this week, I kind of wish he was here to help so I guess I'm not angry at him anymore . It's already the 7th day the new chickens arrived, almost half of two weeks so I'm definitely doing two weeks especially as I'm not finding them very healthy looking. I'm hoping letting them forage several hours daily will help improve their condition. They don't seem to act sick or lethargic.

Crazy broody taking in the sun after two weeks of rain and drizzle. I'm so happy with the rainy weather.

 

[Perris]

Thanks for the update! Strikes me that Léa has got this; you can sit back and follow her lead. In my experience broodies stay close to the nest when they first venture out and will take the chicks in ever increasing ranges day by day. Yours also have aerial predators to worry about so will stay close to chick-sized cover. You might want to add some clutter to the area close to the nest, ideally things chicks can fit under and raptors can't knock over. And Léa might be worrying about the cats too; do you know they're OK with chicks?

 

[ManueB]

She will probably be a cautious momma, as she is a cautious hen, whereas Chipie was a crazy bantam and an adventurous mum !
Yes, there is a lot of clutter. The coop is in the run, I've never seen a raptor come in, though they could. And just outside they have places to hide.

The cats are not ok at all with chicks. But I think Léa is sufficiently impressive to scare them away. Just behind the coop, there is a tit's nest in the wall of the house and the cats used to spend hours waiting for the birds to come out. Now I lock the door of the run so they can't come in, but when the chicks will come out I will have to stay on kitty watch until they are big enough not to be mistaken for birds.

And I think she may also be stressed with all the fighting between the two roosters. Gaston will probably defend the chicks and Théo attack them.