The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[WalnutHill]

I also hatch hundreds of eggs a year, NONE fibro to date, with many incubators under many conditions and have never seen these spots. I will be hatching fibros also in 2017 and will pay attention to shell membranes for all breeds and note any differences.

 

[bullets]

It really shows that u must contact a precessional about certain things. And yes it was a real shocker to know not think I could be better and that I was slacking. I'm sure when u tell someone the black spots are just because ur lazy and don't clean ur stuff enough not that u have pure birds. And that ur selling birds that are not taken care of with good sanitation. I'm sure the reaction alone will be awesome. I can take corrective criticism ok. But for some it will slap their ego and u will lite a flame under them. As for pigment stuck on the egg. There r two membranes between chick n shell.

Lol I would never say that to someone! I'm usually not that rude. I copied the quoted email to my desktop and plan on replying to comments about black dots being only from true cemani with the email. I really dislike disinformation. As far as the sanitation dept goes, I would hate to insult someone, especially about their cleanliness. Everyone does things different. I really don't think someone would intentionally incubate in a dirty bator. You can't see germs. You may think you're doing a sufficient job cleaning, so it's good to know if you aren't so you can change something to rectify the issue. If anything I want it to be a learning moment for people.

 

[bullets]

I also hatch hundreds of eggs a year, NONE fibro to date, with many incubators under many conditions and have never seen these spots. I will be hatching fibrous also in 2017 and will pay attention to shell membranes for all breeds and note any differences.

When I first started seeing the posts about the dots in the egg shell after hatch a few months ago I started paying attention to what mine were looking like, with all different breeds. I had a few that had the dots on the insides of the shell that I noticed within an hour or two after hatch. Upon closer inspection they were not black, they were like a milky dark maroon. I think mine were blood or something. I checked the same shell a few days later and the spots were gone. Just a hint of light maroonish tint evenly throughout the inside membrane.

 

[birdman55]

Lol I would never say that to someone! I'm usually not that rude. I copied the quoted email to my desktop and plan on replying to comments about black dots being only from true cemani with the email. I really dislike disinformation. As far as the sanitation dept goes, I would hate to insult someone, especially about their cleanliness. Everyone does things different. I really don't think someone would intentionally incubate in a dirty bator. You can't see germs. You may think you're doing a sufficient job cleaning, so it's good to know if you aren't so you can change something to rectify the issue. If anything I want it to be a learning moment for people.

I would. Sometimes people need to be put in their place. So they can see they infact they are not right and need to change for the better. In every aspect. When I get challenged and I know I'm right. I will go to extremes to prove to myself the answer. And in the end u either r right or wrong if wrong learn. If right accept that and learn more.

Lol. I'm cleaning my incubator right now.

 

[Pyxis]

I'm half tempted to take a shell to my avian vet after my next hatch, which would be in the spring, and ask him to put it under the microscope for me and take a look. Then I'd know for sure what it is, or at least what it's not.

 

[Ravynscroft]

I don't believe it's bacteria... nor do I believe it 'proves' pure AC... but these spots are a curiosity to me and something I believe that is connected to the fibromelanism of the chicks...

When I first saw the shell that was posted earlier, I said I hadn't seen it, but I had never really looked for them... I had several staggered batches of AC's going as I only had 2 pullets producing eggs and was setting weekly... I started checking shells after that, just for curiosity's sake...

I found these with spots... and then I decided to set some of my black Araucanas in one of my sets, so I figured that would be a good test comparison as well... from those sets, I got these...

This is from a very freshly hatched Cemani...

This shell was from one that had hatched about 2 hrs earlier...

And this is from a fresh hatched black Araucana... no spots in it at all...

If it was bacteria, then it would make sense that other eggs stored together, incubated together and hatched together would have at least one affected... not one Araucana egg shell hatched out with a single spot inside the shell... every single one of those was clean... but every Cemani egg hatched with varying degrees of amounts of spots, but very visible odd black spots... and there was not a hint of bacterial infection in any one of those chicks... all of those chicks, every single one of the Cemanis and Araucanas, is alive now, healthy and thriving... not even a hint of a weak chick in the whole bunch...

Please be advised, I was seriously skeptical of these when I saw the shell posted originally as well... and I still put no stock in the claims that spots in the egg shells certify a pure AC... I think it is just something that is connected with the deep expression of the fibro causing it... a curiosity for sure, but not something that says anyone else's eggs that hatch without them aren't pure...

Take this for what it's worth, it's just my own experiences with this breed so far...

 

[bullets]

I'm half tempted to take a shell to my avian vet after my next hatch, which would be in the spring, and ask him to put it under the microscope for me and take a look. Then I'd know for sure what it is, or at least what it's not.

That's a great idea! I do hope you do that!

 

[bullets]

I don't believe it's bacteria... nor do I believe it 'proves' pure AC... but these spots are a curiosity to me and something I believe that is connected to the fibromelanism of the chicks...

When I first saw the shell that was posted earlier, I said I hadn't seen it, but I had never really looked for them... I had several staggered batches of AC's going as I only had 2 pullets producing eggs and was setting weekly... I started checking shells after that, just for curiosity's sake...

I found these with spots... and then I decided to set some of my black Araucanas in one of my sets, so I figured that would be a good test comparison as well... from those sets, I got these...

This is from a very freshly hatched Cemani...

This shell was from one that had hatched about 2 hrs earlier...

And this is from a fresh hatched black Araucana... no spots in it at all...

If it was bacteria, then it would make sense that other eggs stored together, incubated together and hatched together would have at least one affected... not one Araucana egg shell hatched out with a single spot inside the shell... every single one of those was clean... but every Cemani egg hatched with varying degrees of amounts of spots, but very visible odd black spots... and there was not a hint of bacterial infection in any one of those chicks... all of those chicks, every single one of the Cemanis and Araucanas, is alive now, healthy and thriving... not even a hint of a weak chick in the whole bunch...

Please be advised, I was seriously skeptical of these when I saw the shell posted originally as well... and I still put no stock in the claims that spots in the egg shells certify a pure AC... I think it is just something that is connected with the deep expression of the fibro causing it... a curiosity for sure, but not something that says anyone else's eggs that hatch without them aren't pure...

Take this for what it's worth, it's just my own experiences with this breed so far...

Thank you for your input. The spots I saw in my shells were a lot like the first 3 pictures you posted but then faded away within a day or two. I don't even think they were from my eBay 'Cemanis'. Though I don't remember for sure. I really hope we can keep digging and asking professionals what these spots might be.

 

[Pyxis]

I don't believe it's bacteria... nor do I believe it 'proves' pure AC... but these spots are a curiosity to me and something I believe that is connected to the fibromelanism of the chicks...

When I first saw the shell that was posted earlier, I said I hadn't seen it, but I had never really looked for them... I had several staggered batches of AC's going as I only had 2 pullets producing eggs and was setting weekly... I started checking shells after that, just for curiosity's sake...

I found these with spots... and then I decided to set some of my black Araucanas in one of my sets, so I figured that would be a good test comparison as well... from those sets, I got these...

This is from a very freshly hatched Cemani...

This shell was from one that had hatched about 2 hrs earlier...

And this is from a fresh hatched black Araucana... no spots in it at all...

If it was bacteria, then it would make sense that other eggs stored together, incubated together and hatched together would have at least one affected... not one Araucana egg shell hatched out with a single spot inside the shell... every single one of those was clean... but every Cemani egg hatched with varying degrees of amounts of spots, but very visible odd black spots... and there was not a hint of bacterial infection in any one of those chicks... all of those chicks, every single one of the Cemanis and Araucanas, is alive now, healthy and thriving... not even a hint of a weak chick in the whole bunch...

Please be advised, I was seriously skeptical of these when I saw the shell posted originally as well... and I still put no stock in the claims that spots in the egg shells certify a pure AC... I think it is just something that is connected with the deep expression of the fibro causing it... a curiosity for sure, but not something that says anyone else's eggs that hatch without them aren't pure...

Take this for what it's worth, it's just my own experiences with this breed so far...

Very true, if it were bacteria it would be very strange that it showed up in only one breed, and showed up in every single shell, but did not show up in any shell of the other breed. I think I will take an egg shell to my vet and have him take a peak. I'm inclined to say it's not bacteria given these findings, but a vet would be able to say for sure upon seeing a shell, I think.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Thank you for your input. The spots I saw in my shells were a lot like the first 3 pictures you posted but then faded away within a day or two. I don't even think they were from my eBay 'Cemanis'. Though I don't remember for sure. I really hope we can keep digging and asking professionals what these spots might be.

These don't fade, that's for sure... the very first shell I posted had hatched about a week prior... it was a shell I took out and set down on a shelf in the room and accidentally forgot, lol... that's why I decided to look more closely and compare with a completely different breed without a hint of fibro in it...

The spots don't rub off either, it really is like ink soaked into the membrane... very weird, very odd... but it has intrigued me...