The "Ask Anything" to Nicalandia Thread

[RubelliteRose]

I'd *thought* that any bird hatched from a blue/green egg had to be carrying the blue gene itself. Was I mistaken?

Hoping this is true as my rooster hatched from a gorgeous blue egg and I am trying to add more blue/green egg layers to my flock. I didn't mention it in the other thread, but out of my 3 "olive eggers" (also from Hoover's I think - different store), only 1 lays olive eggs. One lays light brown and the one with muff and beard, lays dark khaki brown

 

[NatJ]

I'd *thought* that any bird hatched from a blue/green egg had to be carrying the blue gene itself. Was I mistaken?

You were partly mistaken.

A hen with one copy of the blue egg gene can lay blue or green eggs, but she has a not-blue gene to pass to half of her chicks.

A hen with two copies of the blue egg gene also lays blue or green eggs, and she gives the blue egg gene to every one of her chicks (so her daughters will all lay blue or green eggs.)

So a chick that hatched from a blue or green egg might have a 50% chance of the blue egg gene, or it might be certain to have the blue egg gene, depending on which set of genes the mother has.

 

[kurby22]

Lavender Cuckoo rooster x Mauve Splash Orpington hen

I'm assuming the hen does not have barring or any kind of patterning, just a genetically black chicken with chocolate and splash (2 copies of the blue gene) diluting the color

For the cuckoo part: sons and daughters will show white barring

For the dilutions:
--lavender is recessive. If the hen does not carry a copy of that gene, none of the chicks will show it, but they will all carry it.
--blue/splash is incompletely dominant. If the hen is splash, she will give one copy of the gene to each chick, so they will all show blue.
--chocolate is recessive and on the Z sex chromosome. The hen will give one copy of the gene to her sons (who do not show it), and none at all to her daughters.

So all chicks will look blue, all will carry the lavender gene, and the sons will also carry the chocolate gene.

This is assuming the recessive, sex-linked gene called "chocolate."
There is a different gene that causes khaki and dun/fawn (sometimes also called "chocolate.") If your hen has that gene, the results will be a bit different.

@nicalandia can you get mauve with dun + blue, or is it only with chocolate + blue? Is it safe to assume that a "mauve" Orpington has sex-linked chocolate rather than dun?

Okay, @NatJ after pondering this I think I understand the basics. The F1s would all be blue, barred, and carry lavender…and the F1 boys would also carry chocolate. So if I understand right, the F2 generation has a 25% or 1:4 chance of making chicks that are chocolate and barred, is this correct?
F0 creates F1s that are all blue and barred
F1xF1 would give me 50% chance blue barred, 25% splash (barred?) and 25% chocolate barred in the F2s?

And if I crossed the male F1s back to the Mauve Splash I would get mauve and mauve splash barred birds in the F2 generation? Because the son and mom both carry chocolate? And the F1 daughters back to their Dad would result in blue diluted by lavender barred and true lavender barred F2s?

Do I have this right??

 

[MysteryChicken]

What should I expect from this crossing?

Bigfoot(Mille Fleur D'uccle/OEGB X Silkie)

X
The JungleFowl hybrid (Red Junglefowl/American Game)on the left?

 

[NatJ]

What should I expect from this crossing?

Bigfoot(Mille Fleur D'uccle/OEGB X Silkie)View attachment 3224804X
The JungleFowl hybrid (Red Junglefowl/American Game)on the left?

I would expect:
No visible mottling, because it's recessive and the females probably don't have it.

Silver-based and maybe gold-based chicks, each color in both genders. (Depends on whether the male has the gold gene or not-- with that list of breeds and that photo, I can't be sure one way or the other.)

Various amounts of black, but probably not arranged in the right pattern for any specific color or variety.

Rose combs on at least half of the chicks, and maybe on all of them.

Feathered feet.

I can't decide whether he's got a crest, or muffs, or both, or neither. Whatever he's got will probably show up in some of his chicks.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I would expect:
No visible mottling, because it's recessive and the females probably don't have it.

Silver-based and maybe gold-based chicks, each color in both genders. (Depends on whether the male has the gold gene or not-- with that list of breeds and that photo, I can't be sure one way or the other.)

Various amounts of black, but probably not arranged in the right pattern for any specific color or variety.

Rose combs on at least half of the chicks, and maybe on all of them.

Feathered feet.

I can't decide whether he's got a crest, or muffs, or both, or neither. Whatever he's got will probably show up in some of his chicks.

The Rooster has Autosomal Red, half beard, small crest, black skin, & 5 toes.

 

[NatJ]

The Rooster has Autosomal Red, half beard, small crest, black skin, & 5 toes.

Then you can expect to see those traits, in various combinations, in some of his chicks too.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Then you can expect to see those traits, in various combinations, in some of his chicks too.

Okay, thanks.

 

[NatJ]

Okay, @NatJ after pondering this I think I understand the basics. The F1s would all be blue, barred, and carry lavender…and the F1 boys would also carry chocolate. So if I understand right, the F2 generation has a 25% or 1:4 chance of making chicks that are chocolate and barred, is this correct?
F0 creates F1s that are all blue and barred
F1xF1 would give me 50% chance blue barred, 25% splash (barred?) and 25% chocolate barred in the F2s?

It gets a little more complicated, because barring is on the Z sex chromosome, and so is chocolate (although I'm told they re-combine enough that they don't act linked to each other, even though both are clearly sexlinked.)

So I would expect:
--every F1 hen passes barring to her sons. She has no chocolate to give them, so her sons will never show chocolate. She gives a W chromosome to her daughters, so she has no effect on whether they will have barring or chocolate.

--F1 males will pass barring to half of their chicks, and not-barred to the other half of their chicks. This means daughters can be barred or not-barred, and sons can be double-barred or single-barred (because each son gets barring from his mother.) Likewise, F1 males will pass chocolate to half of their chicks, and not-chocolate to the other half. So daughters may be chocolate or not, sons will not show chocolate but have a 50% chance of carrying it.

That works out to the following options for barring and chocolate:
males, 25% each of single barred carrying chocolate, single barred without chocolate, double barred carrying chocolate, double barred without chocolate.
females, 25% each of barred, chocolate barred, chocolate not-barred, neither chocolate nor barred.

For blue, yes you should get 25% splash, 50% blue, 25% black (not-blue). That applies to each of the above groups, so they'll break down like this:
single barred males --> 25% splash single barred, 50% blue single barred, 25% black single barred
chocolate females --> 25% splash/chocolate, 50% mauve, 25% chocolate
(etc. for each other group-- I'm not going to list every one of them.)

For lavender, since the F1s all carry it, it will also show up in 25% of chicks, be carried by 50% of chicks, and not be present at all in 25% of chicks. So each group above will have that same ratio: 25% of females are chocolate, 25% of them are not-blue, 25% of those are lavender. Or in fractions, 1/4 of females are chocolate, 1/16 of females are chocolate and not-blue, 1/64 of females are chocolate and not-blue and lavender. 2/64 of females are chocolate, not-blue, carry lavender without showing it. 1/64 of females are chocolate & splash & lavender. etc.

In practice, there are so many colors & combinations you won't see them all unless you hatch a very large number of chicks.

This is one where it's easier to use the chicken calculator:
http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html
For each gender of the F1, put in:
E/E (pure for Extended Black)
B/b+ male or B/- female (each has one copy of the barring gene)
Choc+/choc male or Choc+/- female (only the males carry chocolate)
Bl/bl+ (each is blue)
Lav+/lav (each carries the lavender gene)
Leave all the other genes on the default settings (all are marked with + to indicate the wild-type form.) Most of them are correct, and a few may be wrong but won't actually affect what you see of the offspring (like gold/silver, that doesn't show in all-black chickens.)

Click the button for "calculate crossing"
You will get a very long list of images with the genes listed, including what they show and what they carry, and it will tell how likely each one is to occur (many are about 1/128 likelihood, which accounts for 1/2 of chicks being each gender and 1/64 of that gender having a certain color.)

You can use the calculator on your other crossings, too. The genes I listed are the only ones you should need to mess with for any of them.

And if I crossed the male F1s back to the Mauve Splash I would get mauve and mauve splash barred birds in the F2 generation? Because the son and mom both carry chocolate?

Close.

Barring will appear in half the chicks, but not the other half, because the F1 father only has 1 barring gene, not two, and the mother doesn't have any.

Mauve and mauve splash should show up half the chicks (the ones that inherit chocolate from the F1 male.)
The other half of the chicks will inherit not-chocolate from him, so they will be blue or splash.

Half the chicks will carry lavender (from the F1 male), but none will show it.

So about equal numbers of mauve, mauve barred, mauve splash, and mauve splash barred.

And the F1 daughters back to their Dad would result in blue diluted by lavender barred and true lavender barred F2s?

Yes, you have that right.

Crossing the barred F1 daughters back to their barred father will give 100% true-breeding barred chickens (single-barred females and double-barred males.)

Half of the sons will carry the gene for chocolate, but the other sons will not, and none of the daughters will.

Do I have this right??

Close! You have lots of genes involved, so it gets pretty complicated!

The backcross of daughters to father is genetically the simplest, and the straight F2 is the most complex by far.

 

[kurby22]

It gets a little more complicated, because barring is on the Z sex chromosome, and so is chocolate (although I'm told they re-combine enough that they don't act linked to each other, even though both are clearly sexlinked.)

So I would expect:
--every F1 hen passes barring to her sons. She has no chocolate to give them, so her sons will never show chocolate. She gives a W chromosome to her daughters, so she has no effect on whether they will have barring or chocolate.

--F1 males will pass barring to half of their chicks, and not-barred to the other half of their chicks. This means daughters can be barred or not-barred, and sons can be double-barred or single-barred (because each son gets barring from his mother.) Likewise, F1 males will pass chocolate to half of their chicks, and not-chocolate to the other half. So daughters may be chocolate or not, sons will not show chocolate but have a 50% chance of carrying it.

That works out to the following options for barring and chocolate:
males, 25% each of single barred carrying chocolate, single barred without chocolate, double barred carrying chocolate, double barred without chocolate.
females, 25% each of barred, chocolate barred, chocolate not-barred, neither chocolate nor barred.

For blue, yes you should get 25% splash, 50% blue, 25% black (not-blue). That applies to each of the above groups, so they'll break down like this:
single barred males --> 25% splash single barred, 50% blue single barred, 25% black single barred
chocolate females --> 25% splash/chocolate, 50% mauve, 25% chocolate
(etc. for each other group-- I'm not going to list every one of them.)

For lavender, since the F1s all carry it, it will also show up in 25% of chicks, be carried by 50% of chicks, and not be present at all in 25% of chicks. So each group above will have that same ratio: 25% of females are chocolate, 25% of them are not-blue, 25% of those are lavender. Or in fractions, 1/4 of females are chocolate, 1/16 of females are chocolate and not-blue, 1/64 of females are chocolate and not-blue and lavender. 2/64 of females are chocolate, not-blue, carry lavender without showing it. 1/64 of females are chocolate & splash & lavender. etc.

In practice, there are so many colors & combinations you won't see them all unless you hatch a very large number of chicks.

This is one where it's easier to use the chicken calculator:
http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html
For each gender of the F1, put in:
E/E (pure for Extended Black)
B/b+ male or B/- female (each has one copy of the barring gene)
Choc+/choc male or Choc+/- female (only the males carry chocolate)
Bl/bl+ (each is blue)
Lav+/lav (each carries the lavender gene)
Leave all the other genes on the default settings (all are marked with + to indicate the wild-type form.) Most of them are correct, and a few may be wrong but won't actually affect what you see of the offspring (like gold/silver, that doesn't show in all-black chickens.)

Click the button for "calculate crossing"
You will get a very long list of images with the genes listed, including what they show and what they carry, and it will tell how likely each one is to occur (many are about 1/128 likelihood, which accounts for 1/2 of chicks being each gender and 1/64 of that gender having a certain color.)

You can use the calculator on your other crossings, too. The genes I listed are the only ones you should need to mess with for any of them.


Close.

Barring will appear in half the chicks, but not the other half, because the F1 father only has 1 barring gene, not two, and the mother doesn't have any.

Mauve and mauve splash should show up half the chicks (the ones that inherit chocolate from the F1 male.)
The other half of the chicks will inherit not-chocolate from him, so they will be blue or splash.

Half the chicks will carry lavender (from the F1 male), but none will show it.

So about equal numbers of mauve, mauve barred, mauve splash, and mauve splash barred.


Yes, you have that right.

Crossing the barred F1 daughters back to their barred father will give 100% true-breeding barred chickens (single-barred females and double-barred males.)

Half of the sons will carry the gene for chocolate, but the other sons will not, and none of the daughters will.


Close! You have lots of genes involved, so it gets pretty complicated!

The backcross of daughters to father is genetically the simplest, and the straight F2 is the most complex by far.

Thank you SO much!! This will take a lot of time to process haha! Seems like a fun mix of surprises though! I’ll be bookmarking this to read and re-read and re-read