The Buckeye Thread

[slfarms]

yes,if that is what you read. Where did you read this in sop?I need the page numbers.

Walt

This is straight from the apa website for teaching showmanship to children. It is stated at the top that all of the answers can be found in the Apa SOP and ABA Sop documentation. http://www.apa-abayouthpoultryclub.org/Edu_Material/Showmanship Knowledge.pdf.

 

[slfarms]

I also found this information:

More specificly, from page 34, under General Disqualifications in the American Standard of Perfection 2010::
Quote
e. Clean Legged Chickens, Guinea Fowl, Ducks and Geese

1. Presence of, or unmistakable evidence of the removal of any down, stub, feather or part of feather from shank below the hock joint, or foot, or toe.

 

[fowlman01]

This is straight from the apa website for teaching showmanship to children. It is stated at the top that all of the answers can be found in the Apa SOP and ABA Sop documentation. http://www.apa-abayouthpoultryclub.org/Edu_Material/Showmanship Knowledge.pdf.

It does not say the bird is cross bred if it has stubs in the SOP. If it does. Which I doubt it is wrong

 

[fowlman01]

I also found this information:

More specificly, from page 34, under General Disqualifications in the American Standard of Perfection 2010::
Quote
e. Clean Legged Chickens, Guinea Fowl, Ducks and Geese

1. Presence of, or unmistakable evidence of the removal of any down, stub, feather or part of feather from shank below the hock joint, or foot, or toe.

This is all correct, but it says nothing about evidence of a cross bred bird.

Walt

 

[Canieldonrad]

I think general DQ's should sum it up to be honest "Lacking in Breed characteristics." Anything that is a clean legged variety that has even 1 stub would be(in my opinion) lacking. As it would not be described for that breed, be it a sport(mutation) or a result of cross.


But with showmanship I think the answers would be more generalized and something to drive a point to the kids. Breeding a bird with feathered legs to a bird with clean legs will produce stubs on the leg. It is something to avoid, as you don't want to cross them and then show them. You don't want to get into crazy specifics with kids about how sometimes some weird trait will manifest itself without being introduced. That should be a topic all on its own for showmanship, if addressed at all.

 

[fowlman01]

I think general DQ's should sum it up to be honest "Lacking in Breed characteristics."  Anything that is a clean legged variety that has even 1 stub would be(in my opinion) lacking.  As it would not be described for that breed, be it a sport(mutation) or a result of cross.
P

But with showmanship I think the answers would be more generalized and something to drive a point to the kids.  Breeding a bird with feathered legs to a bird with clean legs will produce stubs on the leg.  It is something to avoid, as you don't want to cross them and then show them.  You don't want to get into crazy specifics with kids about how sometimes some weird trait will manifest itself without being introduced.  That should be a topic all on its own for showmanship, if addressed at all.

I agree but the discussion was about the SOP saying that stubs are evidence of a cross bred bird. It says no such thing.

Walt

 

[slfarms]

This is straight from the apa website for teaching showmanship to children. It is stated at the top that all of the answers can be found in the Apa SOP and ABA Sop documentation. http://www.apa-abayouthpoultryclub.org/Edu_Material/Showmanship Knowledge.pdf.

What was stated is above and I also listed page 34 of the sop which backs up the dq for stubs in clean legged fowl. In feathered legged fowl they have three common genes which will cause the feathered feet-legs and the stub gene is covered up by these. (buffalogirl pointed out the recessive stub gene) It is a gene carried with the feather leg fowl. Someone questioned was it normal in bucks. No, it isn't normal and shouldn't be appearing unless the original breeder used a feather leg (Brahma or Cochin as examples) to increase say "head size" in their buck line. Or when the roo was developed the gene was recessive on both parents sides and showed as the stubs in the roo. It doesn't mean he is a bad bird he can still be a delight to his owner in the backyard environment. If they were showing I think we would all suggest they not use him as a breeder.

I'm sorry if the numerous posts confused or made it seem I was questioning the actual SOP. I was trying to answer the concerned parties question on what is normal for our breed.

Hand shake...

 

[fowlman01]

What was stated is above and I also listed page 34 of the sop which backs up the dq for stubs in clean legged fowl. In feathered legged fowl they have three common genes which will cause the feathered feet-legs and the stub gene is covered up by these. (buffalogirl pointed out the recessive stub gene) It is a gene carried with the feather leg fowl. Someone questioned was it normal in bucks. No, it isn't normal and shouldn't be appearing unless the original breeder used a feather leg (Brahma or Cochin as examples) to increase say "head size" in their buck line. Or when the roo was developed the gene was recessive on both parents sides and showed as the stubs in the roo. It doesn't mean he is a bad bird he can still be a delight to his owner in the backyard environment. If they were showing I think we would all suggest they not use him as a breeder.

I'm sorry if the numerous posts confused or made it seem I was questioning the actual SOP. I was trying to answer the concerned parties question on what is normal for our breed.

Hand shake...

"Per the APA SOP and showmanship guide here is the response so "stubs" Why are having stubs on the legs a DQ?
Because in chickens it’s a demonstration cross breeding of clean legged and feather leg breeds".


Not I problem at all, but I was trying to be sure that people know that this post in bold is not true. Maybe the showmanship section says that, but the SOP does not and stubs are NOT necessarily a sign of crossbreeding. If you look at page 2 of your 2010 SOP the Walt there is me.

I will have the showmanship statement changed. I didn't know that it said that. I sound hard nosed in my posts, but I am actually OK.....lol

Walt

 

[PA Farmer24]

maybe teh APA needs to have the SoP not hard bound and have it in a nice three ring binder. And then write into it's bylaws that addendums are allowed to be written and issued (bought). This way a whole new SoP is not needed to be bought. Many industry standards do this and it does work. You just have to know who to do it right in the first place.

Also, in todays age of IT why can't there be electronic SoP for sell? I know that this is not the right thread to be dicussing this but since we do have someone who is involved with the APA SoP and can get info changed why not give some good info to consider.

 

[fowlman01]

This has all been discussed by the Board before. The ABA did this for about 4years and stopped when they lost money. But if you are a member run it by your Director.

Walt