The Buckeye Thread

[Blueface]

Thank you. So what are your thoughts on this? You've bred many strains of birds over the years. What has your training taught you in regards to temperament, selective breeding and recessive genes?

To expand on my previous comment; I'm a huge advocate of a birds head and eyes (along with eye set). When you look critically at a bird, the eyes and how the bird looks back at you can say a lot about the maturity and can often aide in the understanding of the mentality of the bird. It helps me separate the decent fowl from the space cadets.

 

[HappyBuckeye]

Welcome Happybuckeye. I agree that there are inconsistencies in birds that are shown. Check out the website blueface has in his tag line and see if those were what you saw in lucasville.

Yes, I think that must be the one. That is one fine looking Buckeye. That's what I want mine to look like. I'm going to have to take some time to read through that site, there's all kinds of pictures and tips about breeding there. Thanks for sharing, slfarms and congratualtions bluface3 those are some fine looking Buckeyes and a nice website!

 

[slfarms]

To expand on my previous comment; I'm a huge advocate of a birds head and eyes (along with eye set). When you look critically at a bird, the eyes and how the bird looks back at you can say a lot about the maturity and can often aide in the understanding of the mentality of the bird. It helps me separate the decent fowl from the space cadets.

So I'll put that in terms I understand. When judging temperament of a dog...if the dog doesn't look away when looking in its eyes it believes it is superior/alpha to you. You either have to show the dog you are alpha or if the parents and grandparents are on the premises look at their mannerisms. If they also appear to be alpha/unstable then the breeding program isn't geared towards temperament breeding.

 

[Blueface]

So I'll put that in terms I understand. When judging temperament of a dog...if the dog doesn't look away when looking in its eyes it believes it is superior/alpha to you. You either have to show the dog you are alpha or if the parents and grandparents are on the premises look at their mannerisms. If they also appear to be alpha/unstable then the breeding program isn't geared towards temperament breeding.

Sort of; I just make sure they are calm and have a mild disposition. As they mature; the alpha mentality will present itself

 

[007medic]

slfarms,

When we started out with Buckeyes years ago, the breed still had a very limited number of conservators and man-fighting cocks were more common than they are today. Six, eight, ten years ago if all you had was an aggressive man-fighting cock bird, you used him for one generation of breeding (because you had nothing else!) and then tested his swimming abilities with noodles. Wonderful strides have been made in the breed's temperment since then and aggressive males have become more and more a rarity. We've not had an aggressive cock show up in our program in the last 5 years. You can bet your bottom dollar we selected the bejazus out of those earlier hatches and watched those boys up to the 36 week mark to be sure we selected away from that type of aggression. Still, a male didn't officially make the cut to the breeding program until he passed the 1 year mark. All in all it took more than a couple of generations to get clear of that trait.

 

[buckeyechicken]

Just picked it up today. They received 24 issues Yesterday when it hit the stand and they are down to 4 issues when i picked mine up today. Must be popular down here

 

[Marengoite]

You mention pinched tails. I believe this to be a result of the back narrowing to the base of the tail. The standard states that the breed should be of even width throughout the length of the carcass; from my observations a narrow tail is often a result of a back that narrows to the tail from the top view, as well as the side profile

From a utility perspective, what does this mean for laying ability? Is it related to the Hogan method? In other words, if a hen is three fingers across the pubic bones, will she have a broad back to support the hips or are they unrelated?

And this leads to the relationship between the SOP and utility. Is the SOP written to support a sturdy, dependable production bird in both meat and eggs or is it written just because that is an arbitrary beauty standard?

 

[Marengoite]

These pics will be published in the book that I'm writing.

Is your book on Buckeyes in particular or the influence of game chickens on modern breeds? IMO, and FWIW, I would LOVE to see a book that traces the important influence game birds have had on the chicken fancy and why they need to be preserved. It seems the preservationists are all about saving fluffy butts and barnyard fowl, but not game fowl. For instance, where is the public outcry to preserve the Delaware Blue? There are strong historical reasons for why this bird needs to be preserved, not the least of which is that it is the state bird of Delaware, but where is the popular support for it? I think animal rights kooks and the press have given game fowl a bad rep and we run the risk of losing genetic diversity with the loss of these historically important breeds.

 

[Marengoite]

So,
My daughter who is in FFA has a coop in progress for her SAE..
My question to all of you who may know. The buckeyes at local fairs are few. But those monster white meat birds are all over the place. We have been talking about putting the bucks in her project for next year as a dual purpose entry not just in the meat class.
Her advisor isn't really knowledgable on FFA poultry etc.
Our thought was bucks are a renewable food source and conservation etc is part of her platform using recycled materials etc for the coop.
Any thoughts on bucks in FFA programs?
May be an odd question. But thought I'd ask.
And when showing birds for youth class any thoughts on preparing her? Other than knowing her SOP?
Thanks for letting me ramble over my coffee today.

There are three poultry classes at our county fair. Not sure about FFA, but Morrow Co. fair shows in meaties, laying hens, and fancy. By far the most popular is the fancy class, usually dominated by bantams. Second would be the meaties and then we have a row of laying hens. The Cornish cross dominated the meat class, but our Poultry Committee opened the class up to "Heritage" birds (but I don't think they called them that). This is where folks with Freedom Rangers, Redbros from Meyer, and Dark Cornish showed their chickens the last two years. If your fair does not have this class (and it's not likely they do - Morrow Co. is the only county I've heard of that has it), you may want to get involved in your fair board, or have your kids get on the Jr. Fair board and join the poultry committee. That way they can float a trial balloon - i.e. have an "exhibition" class instead of a competition class.

If I were to show Buckeyes at our fair, it would be in the Fancy LF class. They would be competing (in our county) mostly with RIR, Doms, BPRs, and a few odd breeds like Sumatras (didn't have any this year), Blue Andalusians (same guy the last couple years, no lacing on the birds, so they don't do well), and standard Astralorps and Buff Orps, usually from Meyer or other hatcheries and they do so-so.

If you have some pullets that hatched out within your fair's dates, you could see if they are competitive in laying class. Keep in mind that they will likely be going up against production Barred Rocks (that's who dominated our fair that last few years) so you would need to get them from a strong line of laying Buckeyes. I'd recommend Crain's Run Ranch if you want good consistent layers.

In summary:
1. I would NOT put a Buckeye in competition with the meaties. At 8 weeks, Cornish X are done and ready for the table. Buckeyes, are just getting started. You can't compete against production birds within the allotted time.
2. I WOULD compete in Fancy (and this is where knowing the SOP comes in handy so she can take her best birds).
3. For laying hens, it depends. I wouldn't take hatchery birds. If you could get some Lay line pullets, you might be competitive (and it depends on who else is showing), but the eggs are going to be slightly smaller than production birds.

I would recommend hooking up with any locals who might be regulars on the fair circuit. Usually, your fair board can help you out. They often know the exhibitors that are looking to help out newbies.

Good luck. Also, don't forget about turkeys. They are easy to raise once they get their pin feathers, and you don't have to worry about bringing them home. LOL.

 

[Marengoite]

Joe,

I would highly recommend contacting the poultry committee for the Morrow Co. Fair. I got our 2013 catalog and we have a broiler class with hatch dates as follows:
Cornish Cross: 7/8-7/22
Red Bros: 6/3-3/10
All other varieties: 4/8-5/6

So they judge all the meaties as a single class, but allow different hatch dates for different varieties. This is one way to handle it without adding a new class. Underweight and Overweight broilers can be shown and graded in special classes, but are not eligible for competition or sale.

The person to talk to on that is Mary Neviska as she is heavily involved in promoting Traditional breeds in our county. I sold her my Self buff turkey poults last spring and am hoping to get some eggs from her birds to hatch for next year. If I'm not mistaken, her girls showed at the state fair and finished well. Not sure if they went to the ON or not, since they are in a different school from our kids and we don't see them outside of 4H.