The Calico/Aloha/Mottled Naked Neck Thread

[alohachickens]

Just for fun, I found the photo of "Illusion" a very early Barred Mottled chick! She still looks kind of cool here, but as she aged, you could barely tell she was Mottled at all. As in, if nobody TOLD you she carried Mottling, you'd never guess. There was just a stray white feather tip or wing feather here or there. She left the Aloha program but made a nice layer in a pet home.

Here's the direct link to her photo from 2010:

http://alohachickens.webs.com/aloha feb 010.jpg

 

[draye]

Just for fun, I found the photo of "Illusion" a very early Barred Mottled chick!  She still looks kind of cool here, but as she aged, you could barely tell she was Mottled at all.  As in, if nobody TOLD you she carried Mottling, you'd never guess.  There was just a stray white feather tip or wing feather here or there.  She left the Aloha program but made a nice layer in a pet home.

Here's the direct link to her photo from 2010:

http://alohachickens.webs.com/aloha feb 010.jpg

Cool looking bird.

Right now I have two barred hens in with the Spangled Aloha rooster. Really only because I have nowhere else to put them. They aren't laying right yet.

After I put them in with him I did wonder if I wouldn't come out with Sexlinked chicks.
When they start laying I guess we'll see.

 

[Kassaundra]

This is my understanding of the barred / sex linked connection. All barred FEMALES have a double hit of the barring gene that is why they are darker as chicks and do not have the irregularities in the barring patterning that the males CAN have. Males can have a double hit too, but they will show barring w/ just a single gene those that do will have some irregularities in the barring patterning.


Since the girls need 2 to show, they will pass the one gene to offspring, the boys being solid do not have any barring to pass, so all offspring will only get one barring gene so all barred offspring will be male.

This is just my understanding I don't have any proof or study or knowledge of my own, just what I have surmised from reading, so if inaccurate someone w/ actual knowledge feel free to correct this.

 

[Kev]

This is my understanding of the barred / sex linked connection. All barred FEMALES have a double hit of the barring gene that is why they are darker as chicks and do not have the irregularities in the barring patterning that the males CAN have. Males can have a double hit too, but they will show barring w/ just a single gene those that do will have some irregularities in the barring patterning.


Since the girls need 2 to show, they will pass the one gene to offspring, the boys being solid do not have any barring to pass, so all offspring will only get one barring gene so all barred offspring will be male.

This is just my understanding I don't have any proof or study or knowledge of my own, just what I have surmised from reading, so if inaccurate someone w/ actual knowledge feel free to correct this.

In birds, the females are XY and males are XX*, the reverse of human women being XX and males XY. It's because the Y is much shortened and missing a lot of space for many gene spots.

Like a parking lot that's been half bombed out, so there's much less space to park the cars. The specific parking space for the Barring gene has been bombed out.. so it's "missing" from the Y-parking lot.

In the NN thread, many people are using nn, Nn, NN to mean a non-naked neck, not pure for naked neck(huge bib) and a pure for naked neck(small bowtie or totally clean neck).

Keeping with that theme, the best way to look at sex linked genes is to make a special notation for something sex linked. Since it is "missing" from the reduced sex chromosome, a minus sign is used, -.

B is for sex linked barring, the type on barred rocks, cuckoo marans and Pie.

Roosters being XX means they can be bb(not barred), Bb(single barred) or BB(pure barred).

Hens being XY means they can only be either b- or B-. That's it, no other option..

Rooster: XbXb, XBXb, XBXB
Hen XbY or XBY(no room for barring on Y...)


*in genetics lingo ZZ, ZW is given because they are different. Using more well known human XX, XY example here for explanation purposes only.

 

[Kev]

Just for fun, I found the photo of "Illusion" a very early Barred Mottled chick! She still looks kind of cool here, but as she aged, you could barely tell she was Mottled at all. As in, if nobody TOLD you she carried Mottling, you'd never guess. There was just a stray white feather tip or wing feather here or there. She left the Aloha program but made a nice layer in a pet home.

Here's the direct link to her photo from 2010:

http://alohachickens.webs.com/aloha feb 010.jpg

Yeah that is a cool looking bird. I think this is the same thing as the 'penguin effect' some mottleds go through in the juvenile stage except I'm supposing in combination with barring it shows up in a different way for whatever reason.

 

[Kev]

OK, so one thing I'm still trying to figure out is the Mottling and the sex linked aspect of that. I've heard that if you have barred hens and a solid rooster, you can sex link the chicks sometimes? On this guy, if he was bred to - let's say solid black Turken hens to keep it simple - how many of his chicks would be Barred? Just forget the Mottling thing for a moment, I'm curious about the Barred aspect and how pervasive that would be.

Barring is a sex linked dominant for sure.

Black rooster bred with barred hen= 100% barred sons, 100% black daughters.

The hen being "XY" can only pass on the Barring gene to her sons because she gives her X gene to only her sons and only the Y to her daughters.

To use my previous post, this pairing is XbXb rooster bred with XBY hen... to make it easier, re-write that down as bb bred with B-. Her sons get her B and also the b from the black father, making them Bb(single dose barring). Her daughters get her - and also the b from their father, making them b- (black/not barred).

bb rooster bred with B- hen= Bb sons, b- daughters.

Flip it around and make it a pure barred rooster and non barred hen:

BB bred with b-= Bb sons, B- daughters. All chicks barred, in both sexes.

That's the sex linked difference.. results is different, depending on how the parents are bred.

btw- I was only using black rooster as an example to mean "non barred rooster" as that's maybe a little clunky... it really does not matter what color the parents are, it is at the core, barred vs non barred. Red duckwing bred to crele hen would result in crele sons and red duckwing daughters (crele is red duckwing with barring added. Barred rocks are solid black chickens with barring added)

 

[alohachickens]

Cool looking bird.

Right now I have two barred hens in with the Spangled Aloha rooster. Really only because I have nowhere else to put them. They aren't laying right yet.

After I put them in with him I did wonder if I wouldn't come out with Sexlinked chicks.
When they start laying I guess we'll see.

So, it sounds like from what the other smart folks are saying, this might be the case?

And since Barring messes with the Mottling (just makes it harder to see, that's all) you might want to pick out the hens, anyway. How cool, sounds like they may be sex linked chicks!

 

[draye]

Here are the 12 week pictures of the Mottles.

The cockerel inherited the most mottling. All three hens show mottling to various degrees. The last one you have to pull her wing feathers down to see hers.

Plans are to put the cockerel back over his mama and the pullets back under the sire.

I have another cockerel showing some mottling that is not from the above mating, but some kin in the lines.
I'm watching this one to see if he does indeed have mottling.

I know if no mottling from the mothers side but I guess it is entirely possible as she had an Easter Egger sire. There was also some Production Red in the background ( grandmother to the cockerel).

 

[Kassaundra]

What is the patterning of cream brabanter called? How would the genetics of those mix into mottling? I ask b/c I may have some chicks, won't know for sure until they start feathering b/c they come from a mixed flock.

 

[Kev]

What is the patterning of cream brabanter called? How would the genetics of those mix into mottling? I ask b/c I may have some chicks, won't know for sure until they start feathering b/c they come from a mixed flock.

Spangled.

Combining spangled with mottling... now that's a very interesting question.... they are completely separate things nothing to do with each other. Never thought of it and have no real idea. Maybe a combination of feathers with sort of the mille fleur pattern- primary tan feather with a black bar then finally a white tip-this has nothing to do with mille fleur which has this basic color pattern on their feathers, the similar apperance is only superficial, basically a spangled feather with a white mottle tip.... some feathers probably would be tan tipped with only white(the white mottle covering up the whole spangled tip) with some feathers being normal spangled, all on the same bird.

Silver spangle with mottle probably would be a very interesting looking bird... following the above, basic pattern would leave those black/white birds as mostly white birds with what looks like tiny black flecks/chevrons/bars with the occasional bigger black spangle dot and a bunch of feathers looking solid white from the mottle completely covering up the black spangle dot.