The Dorking Breeders thread

[kittydoc]

I am looking to start raising our own meat birds and I would love for Dorkings to be that breed. Any recommendations on breeders to contact? I am aware there will most likely be a wait, but I would like to get quality birds to start rather than hatchery birds if possible.

I'm curious about why you would be interested in a rare breed like Dorkings as meat birds. If you don't want to use Cornish crosses in favor of something more "natural" that you can breed and that lives a normal lifespan, then perhaps you should consider Bielefelders. They are autosexing and ready to process at 16-20 weeks, and the hens lay large, dark brown eggs. I know people who buy the excess cockerels from breeders as meat birds, or you can keep a flock and literally have dual purpose chickens but that don't require as long to get big enough to process. They are a little later than average to get to point of lay (8-10 months instead of 6-ish), but the eggs are big from the start. I just got into Bielefelders myself and they also have very nice temperaments. I'm expecting my first Dorking chicks in about 10 days, and the last thing I personally want to do with them is use them primarily for meat. Several friends are purchasing different colors of Dorkings, so hopefully we'll be able to have these ancient and unusual chickens for a long time.

 

[AFChick]

I'm curious about why you would be interested in a rare breed like Dorkings as meat birds. If you don't want to use Cornish crosses in favor of something more "natural" that you can breed and that lives a normal lifespan, then perhaps you should consider Bielefelders. They are autosexing and ready to process at 16-20 weeks, and the hens lay large, dark brown eggs. I know people who buy the excess cockerels from breeders as meat birds, or you can keep a flock and literally have dual purpose chickens but that don't require as long to get big enough to process. They are a little later than average to get to point of lay (8-10 months instead of 6-ish), but the eggs are big from the start. I just got into Bielefelders myself and they also have very nice temperaments. I'm expecting my first Dorking chicks in about 10 days, and the last thing I personally want to do with them is use them primarily for meat. Several friends are purchasing different colors of Dorkings, so hopefully we'll be able to have these ancient and unusual chickens for a long time.

I've always understood, from a livestock conservancy point of view, that the best way to preserve a rare breed of livestock or poultry is to breed and use them as they were intended. To name two breeds, as I do have several more, I have raised American Chinchilla rabbits for over a decade, Dorkings, just a little less. When I started with rare heritage breed preservation, no one in my area had either of these animals but now? I can point out over 20 people, without even trying , who raise American Chinchillas for meat, fur and also sale. As far as the Dorkings go in my area, I know of 3 breeders BUT we supply local "newbies" with chicks and eggs and all the support we can give them on taking the breed to the next level and how to be an ambassador for this wonderful breed.
My birds make weight and type is close- I don't care about colors or pinkisih - white - red earlobes (though those little details are coming along) meaning I am completing my barn first, so to speak. I mean, how can you take a heritage meat bird and not raise it for such? Is it just me, or does anyone else believe (or secretly think) that the many issues such as hatching problems and failure to thrive problems, etc., are generally brought on by the coveted, pampered stock which is treated as if it's "too fragile", never free ranged or allowed to be a chicken in any true sense of the word- I don't know, but what I DO know is I don't want to offend anyone or discourage anyone who has chosen the Dorking as their breed but they are , though actually not so much so now from what I have seen, so I should say WERE a true meat bird, one of the best and that's what I am working towards and will continue to work towards.

My line of thought has always been, if you don't use them for what they were originally intended, a top foraging, succulent, beautiful, robust meat bird, you're basically just "hoarding" them (for the pretty colors or show, etc.,) and hoarding them is certainly not doing them a favor by any means, actually it's a true injustice and disservice.

** please do not take ANYTHING I said above as having ANY tone other than compassion and a pleading for understanding as that is how it is intended. Think of me as your friendly neighborhood "Lorax" type

 

[DesertChic]

I've always understood, from a livestock conservancy point of view, that the best way to preserve a rare breed of livestock or poultry is to breed and use them as they were intended. To name two breeds, as I do have several more, I have raised American Chinchilla rabbits for over a decade, Dorkings, just a little less. When I started with rare heritage breed preservation, no one in my area had either of these animals but now? I can point out over 20 people, without even trying , who raise American Chinchillas for meat, fur and also sale. As far as the Dorkings go in my area, I know of 3 breeders BUT we supply local "newbies" with chicks and eggs and all the support we can give them on taking the breed to the next level and how to be an ambassador for this wonderful breed.
My birds make weight and type is close- I don't care about colors or pinkisih - white - red earlobes (though those little details are coming along) meaning I am completing my barn first, so to speak. I mean, how can you take a heritage meat bird and not raise it for such? Is it just me, or does anyone else believe (or secretly think) that the many issues such as hatching problems and failure to thrive problems, etc., are generally brought on by the coveted, pampered stock which is treated as if it's "too fragile", never free ranged or allowed to be a chicken in any true sense of the word- I don't know, but what I DO know is I don't want to offend anyone or discourage anyone who has chosen the Dorking as their breed but they are , though actually not so much so now from what I have seen, so I should say WERE a true meat bird, one of the best and that's what I am working towards and will continue to work towards.

My line of thought has always been, if you don't use them for what they were originally intended, a top foraging, succulent, beautiful, robust meat bird, you're basically just "hoarding" them (for the pretty colors or show, etc.,) and hoarding them is certainly not doing them a favor by any means, actually it's a true injustice and disservice.

** please do not take ANYTHING I said above as having ANY tone other than compassion and a pleading for understanding as that is how it is intended. Think of me as your friendly neighborhood "Lorax" type

I completely agree with you! I started my chicken adventure with hatchery stock of Australorps, Barred Rocks and Silkies (because they're just so darn cute). Those are my "egg layers" and I've never intended them to be used for meat. Since then I've added NN Turkens and Bielefelders and now Silver Grey Dorkings. I hope to focus on breeding large, healthy meat birds who will also keep me supplied with eggs. Although my birds are spoiled with affection, I'm working hard on setting up my property so that they can all be allowed to roam about my 1/2 - 1 acre back yard and feed on greens, bugs and lizards. Housing and controlling the feed of birds may result in plump broilers, but I think the taste is virtually non-existent. I want my chickens to know what it is to be a chicken....and taste the way a chicken was meant to taste.

 

[RhodeRunner]

I'm curious about why you would be interested in a rare breed like Dorkings as meat birds.  If  you don't want to use Cornish crosses in favor of something more "natural" that you can breed and that lives a normal lifespan, then perhaps you should consider Bielefelders.  They are autosexing and ready to process at 16-20 weeks, and the hens lay large, dark brown eggs.  I know people who buy the excess cockerels from breeders as meat birds, or you can keep a flock and literally have dual purpose chickens but that don't require as long to get big enough to process.  They are a little later than average to get to point of lay (8-10 months instead of 6-ish), but the eggs are big from the start.  I just got into Bielefelders myself and they also have very nice temperaments.  I'm expecting my first Dorking chicks in about 10 days, and the last thing I personally want to do with them is use them primarily for meat.  Several friends are purchasing different colors of Dorkings, so hopefully we'll be able to have these ancient and unusual chickens for a long time.

I have been raising chickens for a long time, and never ate chicken that tasted as good as a Dorking. These are meat chickens, that have been breed for quality meat for years! People often believe they can't/shouldn't eat rare breeds. That does nothing but help keep them rare, and ensure fowl that should be culls stay alive and often breed.

 

[Talithahorse]

I agree as well. The more "purpose" a breed has, the more likely that the numbers will increase. Also as so many breeders have said, It may take 20-30, 40 or more birds to get that one champion SOP bird. What do you do with the other 39? I sought out Dorkings for their Purpose, which is dual purpose, self sustaining and with any luck, assuming my stock is good (and I am pretty darn sure they are), I will be self sufficient next year. Eventually I would like to have enough to share with others who want to so lovingly carry on the breed but in the end I will be content if my Dorkings are successful in the original purpose of the animal. Also as we spread the flock out, it preserves the genetics in the chance of disease striking a particular flock (We nearly lost the lippizzans for that reason). I love the fact that there are other breeders close by if something happens to my flock. My first batch of Silver Grey I had ordered 10. A darn fox took out every pullet I had in one night, leaving me with 4 Roosters and no hen. I had to start over, this time with Red Dorkings. Some may choose not to use their extras for a meal and that is fine. There are lots of people looking for them but if we truly want to bring the breed to its glory, we really should be selectively breeding for purpose.

The breeds that have the biggest numbers are the breeds that best serve their purpose. Will there always be a niche market for breeds which serve no other purpose than to delight their owners, sure but how many free roosters (They are pretty, some are close to SOP, but few have a "purpose") is there a market for?

 

[KittieChick]

I am looking to start raising our own meat birds and I would love for Dorkings to be that breed. Any recommendations on breeders to contact? I am aware there will most likely be a wait, but I would like to get quality birds to start rather than hatchery birds if possible.

There's a Dorking facebook page. We made a google map for breeders with breeds, and what the offerings are. In the meantime, where are you located?

 

[kittydoc]

I eat my retired breeders, no matter what the breed, but I don't see the purpose of slaughtering rare breeds in their youth. It's rather difficult to increase their numbers and maintain genetic diversity if the majority are slaughtered before they reproduce. Having worked with Jubilee Orpingtons, I see the terrible results of creating a tiny gene pool.

I'm not interested in just pretty birds, and have zero interest in showing. I do try to breed toward the SOP, but vicious culling of a breed present in low numbers will result in unintended genetic problems that are not seen in breeds which are numerous. You'll get away with it for a few generations, then all of a sudden wonder what happened.

I cull, and eat, birds that are not what I want, but only for breeds and colors which are readily available.

 

[AFChick]

I cull, and eat, birds that are not what I want, but only for breeds and colors which are readily available.

99% of the Dorkings I eat are between 6 and 10 months, so I know where they are (type, etc.) before they are harvested... not really what I consider slaughtering rare breeds in their youth... I know my lines ...


Ok let me try it this way-

What do you do with the rare breed birds that you have, that are not what you want"? Which, correct me if I'm wrong, would have faults, less than desirable traits, not to standard, etc...... Do you then breed THOSE birds as well??? Wouldn't that be contributing to the genetic problem, en masse, by breeding or selling to those who are going to breed them when they aren't a good representation of the breed? Doesn't that also add to the problem?

Forgive me, but I'm really trying to understand how your train of thought and your breeding program works towards preserving the Dorking without destroying what genetic diversity we already have by allowing a plethora of faults back into the breed because you don't eat them... because they're rare... the Dorking meat bird...

 

[RhodeRunner]

I eat my retired breeders, no matter what the breed, but I don't see the purpose of slaughtering rare breeds in their youth. It's rather difficult to increase their numbers and maintain genetic diversity if the majority are slaughtered before they reproduce. Having worked with Jubilee Orpingtons, I see the terrible results of creating a tiny gene pool.

I'm not interested in just pretty birds, and have zero interest in showing. I do try to breed toward the SOP, but vicious culling of a breed present in low numbers will result in unintended genetic problems that are not seen in breeds which are numerous. You'll get away with it for a few generations, then all of a sudden wonder what happened.

I cull, and eat, birds that are not what I want, but only for breeds and colors which are readily available.

As someone that enjoys studying genetics, I'm not sure if a tiny gene pool exists

But, I understand what you are saying, especially if your are tinkering with colors! We do have an issue on our hands if we lack healthy genetics and inbreed to tightly. I've seen this in several breeds (Largefowl Orloffs and Crevecours) and ended up ditching both breeds because they where to unhealthy for me to continue.

However, I do not blame the Orloffs or Crevecours issue on lack of genetic diversity. I blame it on the selection or lack thereof, of the wrong genetics. There is nothing wrong with a "small gene pool" provided the line has good health. This gives a greater ability to control what one is working towards, and the best lines of poulty out the are inbred.

If you haven't read this, it is a rather interesting http://www.dominiquechicken.com/Inbreeding_Considerations.html

 

[AFChick]

As someone that enjoys studying genetics, I'm not sure if a tiny gene pool exists

But, I understand what you are saying, especially if your are tinkering with colors! We do have an issue on our hands if we lack healthy genetics and inbreed to tightly. I've seen this in several breeds (Largefowl Orloffs and Crevecours) and ended up ditching both breeds because they where to unhealthy for me to continue.

However, I do not blame the Orloffs or Crevecours issue on lack of genetic diversity. I blame it on the selection or lack thereof, of the wrong genetics. There is nothing wrong with a "small gene pool" provided the line has good health. This gives a greater ability to control what one is working towards, and the best lines of poulty out the are inbred.

If you haven't read this, it is a rather interesting http://www.dominiquechicken.com/Inbreeding_Considerations.html

Line breeding with careful selection IS bringing the Am Chin back- If I'm not mistaking, someone on here, YHF, I think, posted about creating "families" of the breed and then crossing the offspring of those families (which actually extends genetic diversity a bit), keeping a critical eye on your type etc.... This is almost the same breeding program we were taught to use with the Am Chin which is still on the critical list at this time BUT is slowly increasing in numbers.... with the correct type-