The fiscal cliff

Date sort Score sort
hemet dennis said:
Nice shift of gears there.

But less times so far and more dollars then any of the others.
Click to expand...
The truth is that the nearly 18 percent spike in spending in fiscal 2009 — for which the president is sometimes blamed entirely — was mostly due to appropriations and policies that were already in place when Obama took office.

That includes spending for the bank bailout legislation approved by President Bush. Annual increases in amounts actually spent since fiscal 2009 have been relatively modest. In fact, spending for the first seven months of the current fiscal year (2012-2013) is running slightly below the same period last year, and below projections.



 
Last edited:
Matthew3590 I don't know who "we" are but bush got a lot of hate for anything he did. I will dislike any president that tries to raise the ceiling.
Click to expand...

Any congress critters that don't hold hands and jump together are those who are purposely attacking the `full faith and credit' (they wrote the legislation and sent it for a signature).

Obama made two floor speeches in the Senate in 2006 regarding his (and his party's) vote against raising the debt ceiling. Selective quoting and memory seems pretty common, these days.

In 2006, everyone was happy!!! Moody's and Fitch were busy marking up toxic debt instruments to AAA, for their investment banking clients (to be sold on to your aunt sally's pension fund) - and the fees flowed in (did they ever). U.S. debt? who cares!

The purpose of the Dems in the Senate objecting to the debt ceiling was their inability to get sufficient support to reinstate PAYGO: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAYGO that had expired in 2002.

Some of Obama's speech that isn't quoted (the Congressional Record is your friend):

Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is ``trillion'' with a ``T.'' That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President's budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.

Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we'll spend on Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America's priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans--a debt tax that Washington doesn't want to talk about. If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we would see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.

But we are not doing that. Despite repeated efforts by Senators CONRAD and FEINGOLD, the Senate continues to reject a return to the commonsense Pay-go rules that used to apply. Previously, Pay-go rules applied both to increases in mandatory spending and to tax cuts. The Senate had to abide by the commonsense budgeting principle of balancing expenses and revenues. Unfortunately, the principle was abandoned, and now the demands of budget discipline apply only to spending.

As a result, tax breaks have not been paid for by reductions in Federal spending, and thus the only way to pay for them has been to increase our deficit to historically high levels and borrow more and more money. Now we have to pay for those tax breaks plus the cost of borrowing for them. Instead of reducing the deficit, as some people claimed, the fiscal policies of this administration and its allies in Congress will add more than $600 million in debt for each of the next 5 years. That is why I will once again cosponsor the Pay-go amendment and continue to hope that my colleagues will return to a smart rule that has worked in the past and can work again.
Click to expand...

Two huge tax cuts with no commiserate decrease in spending, two wars for which no revenue was raised and Medicare Part D (17.2 trillion over 75 yrs) a sop to big pharma (no discounts for you, Uncle Sam!).

Today, those same rating agencies that were busy with their fraud in 2006, are now threatening to downgrade the U.S. again. And, the current account deficit isn't really the problem (no Congress member, of either party, wants to deal with the 75 yr. 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities). Any screwing around with the debt ceiling and resultant downgrade simply puts a greater burden on our grand kids through increased borrowing costs - an increase in the Debt Tax...

The Treasury Dept. has already initiated those same `extraordinary measures' that they did in 2011 when this bit of theater was staged (the direct cost of the show was 1.3 billion).

To quote from the GAO report (an excellent agency that returns $80.00 to the Treasury for every tax dollar spent to fund the agency - both parties want to cut its funding - imagine that):

Delays in raising the debt limit can create uncertainty in the Treasury market and lead to higher Treasury borrowing costs. GAO estimated that delays in raising the debt limit in 2011 led to an increase in Treasury’s borrowing costs of about $1.3 billion in fiscal year 2011. However, this does not account for the multiyear effects on increased costs for Treasury securities that will remain outstanding after fiscal year 2011. Further, according to Treasury officials, the increased focus on debt limit-related operations as such delays occurred required more time and Treasury resources and diverted Treasury’s staff away from other important cash and debt management responsibilities.
Click to expand...

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-701
 
ivan3 said:
Any congress critters that don't hold hands and jump together are those who are purposely attacking the `full faith and credit' (they wrote the legislation and sent it for a signature).

Obama made two floor speeches in the Senate in 2006 regarding his (and his party's) vote against raising the debt ceiling. Selective quoting and memory seems pretty common, these days.

In 2006, everyone was happy!!! Moody's and Fitch were busy marking up toxic debt instruments to AAA, for their investment banking clients (to be sold on to your aunt sally's pension fund) - and the fees flowed in (did they ever). U.S. debt? who cares!

The purpose of the Dems in the Senate objecting to the debt ceiling was their inability to get sufficient support to reinstate PAYGO: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAYGO that had expired in 2002.

Some of Obama's speech that isn't quoted (the Congressional Record is your friend):
Two huge tax cuts with no commiserate decrease in spending, two wars for which no revenue was raised and Medicare Part D (17.2 trillion over 75 yrs) a sop to big pharma (no discounts for you, Uncle Sam!).

Today, those same rating agencies that were busy with their fraud in 2006, are now threatening to downgrade the U.S. again. And, the current account deficit isn't really the problem (no Congress member, of either party, wants to deal with the 75 yr. 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities). Any screwing around with the debt ceiling and resultant downgrade simply puts a greater burden on our grand kids through increased borrowing costs - an increase in the Debt Tax...

The Treasury Dept. has already initiated those same `extraordinary measures' that they did in 2011 when this bit of theater was staged (the direct cost of the show was 1.3 billion).

To quote from the GAO report (an excellent agency that returns $80.00 to the Treasury for every tax dollar spent to fund the agency - both parties want to cut its funding - imagine that):
http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-701
Click to expand...
goodpost.gif
 
hemet dennis said:
Did we just raise taxes on the rich and add more spending ?
Click to expand...
They fought against it, and they made sure that the very rich paid less and lowered the increase ceiling so that those making less got a tax increase. Because of the GOP, more small businesses are effected by the tax increase then would have been if they would have just left Obama's plan alone...
 
Last edited:
hemet dennis All that extra expense just because Obama wont talk about spending cuts
Click to expand...

I have problems, along several axes, with Obama. Worrying about how he's going to vote on the debt ceiling this time is, obviously, not a concern.

The Congress already spent the money but the checks haven't been disbursed. Debt ceiling is not a technicality from which any rational leverage can be applied.

We'll see. If this is stretched out long enough to cause a downgrade, I expect certain members of Congress to appear before the cameras and say: `Obama made me do it'

Well, when they run that flag up the pole I'll be looking to see if anyone at all salutes it.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

C
Help - odd breathing/gasping from female turkey
Replies
2
Views
443
champchamp
C

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom