The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[gallusman]

Check out the newRI Red pics on the Breed listing!

 

[immyjay54]

Well I say Mr. Blosl You are definitely worth your weight in gold (dare I say platinum) with the wealth of information you dole out in you posts. Thanks so much for your insight, it really is a help to us just getting into breeding these wonderful Heritage type birds.

I just went to the PO and picked up 16 one month old Hortsman RIR's they are awesome and I can most definitely see a world of difference in between these and my line(started out with "factory stock"great layers too) of reds I have had for 6 years.< Ideal and Privett crosses of my choosing and selections over the past few years.

Thanks again for all this great reading and learning material it's such a help for all, I'm sure.

Jeff

Meeting up with Dick this afternoon to pick up my chicks. I'm getting the RC from him. Have Don Nelson eggs in bator right now. I pip so far. Tomorrow is day 21. Getting some of the old Mohawk line from greathorse in 2 weeks.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Glad you are getting some stock from Paul in Colorado. You are gong to have fun comparing the adult birds this fall to see which ones do the best for you.

I got a message today and then a email from a breeder who does not even read this forum. The personnel message was does breeding from adult birds 18 months to say three years old really help in breeding birds to the standard.?

Then the breeder who emailed me asked did I know two Leghorn breeders from the past? Then he said these breecders had nice cockerels and pullets but when the birds went through their molt and where 18 months old or older they where short in body and their tails were also short were then when they where cockerels and pullets. He said they had a young cockterel or pullet line but you could nott win with older birds for best of breed. To me that is a great example for us to learn from. You should be able to win with a nice pullet and next year she molts back as a hen she should be able to look good and win again.

This is why Harold Tompkins liked to breed from adult birds that molted back looking like the standard and if they did not molt back with brick shape body's or tails of normal length he would dispose of them. You can see with in three to five years of doing this your whole flock will look uniform and standard in appearance. In the old days breeders wanted to win the throphy of best Display. You won this award with not only young birds but with old trios, cock and hen winning. If you breed from just young birds you may have a fine line of reds but when they grew up they where short in body short in tail and just out and out culls.

Its amazing to me if we just follow some of the secrets from the old heritage large fowl breeders we could have the same success today as they did in the old days. Hope you may think about these secrets as you learn to breed your reds in the future. The other secret for you who are trying out two or three different strains of birds is find the strain you like best then get rid of the other strain or two and focus on what you have and improve them. Do not do what 95 percent of most Red want a be breeders and cross your strains thinking you are going to hit the lottery. It just wont happen. You will waist many valuable years culling out all the faults you dig up.if they are good layers you will have fewer eggs in the future off spring.

The three strains you talked about are all good ones. They are not related and if you pick one your reds should breed true and you will be very happy with them. One thing we need to do is try to keep track who post on this thread and what strains you have for next year. When we have people who want stock next year we will have a organized list to share with them. It is still very hard to get new folks into reds as their are so few people breeding them or they dont ship eggs or chicks. bob

 

[Robert Blosl]

Glad you are getting some stock from Paul in Colorado. You are gong to have fun comparing the adult birds this fall to see which ones do the best for you.

I got a message today and then a email from a breeder who does not even read this forum. The personnel message was does breeding from adult birds 18 months to say three years old really help in breeding birds to the standard.?

Then the breeder asked did I know two Le horn breeders from the past? Then he said these breeders had nice cockerels and pullets but when the birds went through their molt and where 18 months old or older they where short in body and their tails were also short were then when they where cockerels and pullets.

This is why Harold Tompkins liked to breed from adult birds that molted back looking like the standard and if they did not molt back with brick shape body's or tails of normal length he would dispose of the. You can see with in three to five years of doing this your whole flock will look uniform and standard in appearance. In the old days breeders wanted to win the throphy of best Display. You won this award with not only young birds but with old trios, cock and hen winning. If you breed from just young birds you may have a fine line of reds but when they grew up they where short in body short in tail and just out and out culls.

Its amazing to me if we just follow some of the secrets from the old heritage large fowl breeders we could have the same success today as they did in the old days. Hope you may think about these secrets as you learn to breed your reds in the future. The other secret for you who are trying out two or three different strains of birds is find the strain you like best then get rid of the other strain or two and focus on what you have and improve them. Do not do what 95 percent of most Red want a be breeders and cross your strains thinking you are going to hit the lottery. It just wont happen. You will waist many valuable years culling out all the faults you dig up.if they are good layers you will have fewer eggs in the future off spring.

The three strains you talked about are all good ones. They are not related and if you pick one your reds should breed true and you will be very happy with them. One thing we need to do is try to keep track who post on this thread and what strains you have for next year. When we have people who want stock next year we will have a organized list to share with them. It is still very hard to get new folks into reds as their are so few people breeding them or they dont ship eggs or chicks. bob

 

[ronott1]

Glad you are getting some stock from Paul in Colorado. You are gong to have fun comparing the adult birds this fall to see which ones do the best for you.

I got a message today and then a email from a breeder who does not even read this forum. The personnel message was does breeding from adult birds 18 months to say three years old really help in breeding birds to the standard.?

Then the breeder who emailed me asked did I know two Leghorn breeders from the past? Then he said these breecders had nice cockerels and pullets but when the birds went through their molt and where 18 months old or older they where short in body and their tails were also short were then when they where cockerels and pullets. He said they had a young cockterel or pullet line but you could nott win with older birds for best of breed. To me that is a great example for us to learn from. You should be able to win with a nice pullet and next year she molts back as a hen she should be able to look good and win again.

This is why Harold Tompkins liked to breed from adult birds that molted back looking like the standard and if they did not molt back with brick shape body's or tails of normal length he would dispose of them. You can see with in three to five years of doing this your whole flock will look uniform and standard in appearance. In the old days breeders wanted to win the throphy of best Display. You won this award with not only young birds but with old trios, cock and hen winning. If you breed from just young birds you may have a fine line of reds but when they grew up they where short in body short in tail and just out and out culls.

Its amazing to me if we just follow some of the secrets from the old heritage large fowl breeders we could have the same success today as they did in the old days. Hope you may think about these secrets as you learn to breed your reds in the future. The other secret for you who are trying out two or three different strains of birds is find the strain you like best then get rid of the other strain or two and focus on what you have and improve them. Do not do what 95 percent of most Red want a be breeders and cross your strains thinking you are going to hit the lottery. It just wont happen. You will waist many valuable years culling out all the faults you dig up.if they are good layers you will have fewer eggs in the future off spring.

The three strains you talked about are all good ones. They are not related and if you pick one your reds should breed true and you will be very happy with them. One thing we need to do is try to keep track who post on this thread and what strains you have for next year. When we have people who want stock next year we will have a organized list to share with them. It is still very hard to get new folks into reds as their are so few people breeding them or they dont ship eggs or chicks. bob

Hi Bob,

I am on the California the Whole state thread. Kim, the Thread Starter, maintains information in the first post. As the Thread starter here, you can put breeder information in the First post. You can then refer requests to that post when they have questions. You might consider adding the excellent history you recently posted there. There may be other things too.

Thanks for all you contribute to this thread!

Ron

 

[immyjay54]

Glad you are getting some stock from Paul in Colorado. You are gong to have fun comparing the adult birds this fall to see which ones do the best for you.

I got a message today and then a email from a breeder who does not even read this forum. The personnel message was does breeding from adult birds 18 months to say three years old really help in breeding birds to the standard.?

Then the breeder asked did I know two Le horn breeders from the past? Then he said these breeders had nice cockerels and pullets but when the birds went through their molt and where 18 months old or older they where short in body and their tails were also short were then when they where cockerels and pullets.

This is why Harold Tompkins liked to breed from adult birds that molted back looking like the standard and if they did not molt back with brick shape body's or tails of normal length he would dispose of the. You can see with in three to five years of doing this your whole flock will look uniform and standard in appearance. In the old days breeders wanted to win the throphy of best Display. You won this award with not only young birds but with old trios, cock and hen winning. If you breed from just young birds you may have a fine line of reds but when they grew up they where short in body short in tail and just out and out culls.

Its amazing to me if we just follow some of the secrets from the old heritage large fowl breeders we could have the same success today as they did in the old days. Hope you may think about these secrets as you learn to breed your reds in the future. The other secret for you who are trying out two or three different strains of birds is find the strain you like best then get rid of the other strain or two and focus on what you have and improve them. Do not do what 95 percent of most Red want a be breeders and cross your strains thinking you are going to hit the lottery. It just wont happen. You will waist many valuable years culling out all the faults you dig up.if they are good layers you will have fewer eggs in the future off spring.

The three strains you talked about are all good ones. They are not related and if you pick one your reds should breed true and you will be very happy with them. One thing we need to do is try to keep track who post on this thread and what strains you have for next year. When we have people who want stock next year we will have a organized list to share with them. It is still very hard to get new folks into reds as their are so few people breeding them or they dont ship eggs or chicks. bob

Nice write up Bob. I'm really looking forward to the Horstman RC birds. It doesn't seem like there are to many of them around. The others I will be raising up and holding on to till sometime next year and see how they do over winter with laying ability etc. I won't make up my mind without giving them a real chance with color, conformation etc.
Jim

 

[NYREDS]

I'm not sure Bob's worth his weight in gold, he';s a pretty big guy. :-] He is however a good source of information about Reds as he's really made a study of a lot of the old literature.
My understanding of what happened with the type of Rhode Island Reds is that in the early 20th century breeders diverged into two categories. One group concentreted on productivity at the expense of type & the other concentrated on type at the expense of productivity. Thus leaving people with a choice between birds that layed well but didn't look much like the Standard description & birds that were show worthy But didn't lay particularly well. There were, during this time, breeders like Harold Tompkins, E W Maayhood & H R Hartman who produced birds that both showed well & laid well. Sadly breeders such as these men were in the minority. The positive that can be taken from this is the knowledge that Reds bred to the Standard can be productive if the breeder selects for productivity as well as appearance.
Standard bred Reds will never lay as well as their production bred counterparts or the production hybrids. However with proper selection of breeding birds, over time, it should be possible to get them back to 250+ eggs per year. I do want to emphasise that this would take time, several generations, & ridgid culling.
I've read often here the suggestion that Rhode Island Reds were crossed with New Hampshires to create production bred Rhode Island Reds. I haven't found information anywhere else to support that suggestion.

Well I say Mr. Blosl You are definitely worth your weight in gold (dare I say platinum) with the wealth of information you dole out in you posts. Thanks so much for your insight, it really is a help to us just getting into breeding these wonderful Heritage type birds.

I just went to the PO and picked up 16 one month old Horstman RIR's they are awesome and I can most definitely see a world of difference in between these and my line(started out with "factory stock"great layers too) of reds I have had for 6 years.< Ideal and Privett crosses of my choosing and selections over the past few years.

Thanks again for all this great reading and learning material it's such a help for all, I'm sure.

Jeff

 

[catdaddyfro]

I'm not sure Bob's worth his weight in gold, he';s a pretty big guy. :-] He is however a good source of information about Reds as he's really made a study of a lot of the old literature.
My understanding of what happened with the type of Rhode Island Reds is that in the early 20th century breeders diverged into two categories. One group concentreted on productivity at the expense of type & the other concentrated on type at the expense of productivity. Thus leaving people with a choice between birds that layed well but didn't look much like the Standard description & birds that were show worthy But didn't lay particularly well. There were, during this time, breeders like Harold Tompkins, E W Maayhood & H R Hartman who produced birds that both showed well & laid well. Sadly breeders such as these men were in the minority. The positive that can be taken from this is the knowledge that Reds bred to the Standard can be productive if the breeder selects for productivity as well as appearance.
Standard bred Reds will never lay as well as their production bred counterparts or the production hybrids. However with proper selection of breeding birds, over time, it should be possible to get them back to 250+ eggs per year. I do want to emphasise that this would take time, several generations, & ridgid culling.
I've read often here the suggestion that Rhode Island Reds were crossed with New Hampshires to create production bred Rhode Island Reds. I haven't found information anywhere else to support that suggestion.

LOL Yeah I had put the worth his weight in gold in lieu to one of his previous post on here as he had used the same analogy towards something else.

Thanks for your info too, there NYREDS. I really get into all this very informative history of these RIR's from ya'll, lets say "experienced in time" breeders, steeped deep in the knowledge of such material and most definitely from hands on learning, for sure. I like how you stated the fact about these Heritage RIR with diligent breeding could be brought back up to their original production numbers along with keeping the look/type correct also. This makes good sense to me as it is(should be) in their genetic make-up, unless the ones being used have been contaminated with outside bloodlines or production stock mixed all up in the make up of them.
Anyway you guys are great teachers and put it out there in laymens terms so the "Averge Joes" (Jeff-me) can absorb it all. LOL

Keep it up, its great stuff.

Jeff

 

[Robert Blosl]

There you have it you have a choice. Its so simple get you some red chickens that lay lots of eggs or hybrids and just get over it. Or get you some some that dont lay so many eggs and have meat on their bones and are pretty in the show room or on your lawn. Rhode Island Reds are dual purpose breed. Meat, Eggs and Beauty. That is all. Just like the Short Horn Cattle they give some milk, some meat and are pretty. So simple just dont confuse them and try to get them to give milk like a Guernsey or Holstein and dont expect the Holstein to have meat like a Hearford.

Why people want to encrouch into the other breeds trait is beyond me. Maurice Wallace a great breeder and judge from Canada always told his followers or students to not to encrouch into the other breed when breeding or judging. When you judge a Rock or Wyandotte or Orpington dont try to bring those traits over in your decisions in the class you are judging. Judges are suppose to know the difference when judging our fowls, yet many will not cut a Rhode Island Red bantam for having a back or top line like a Plymouth Rock. If judges want this type of bird and you want to win then you have to show this kind of bird to win points so you can be called a master exhibitor or master breeder in some year book.

What is not popular is when a judge cuts a breeders birds for faults who is use to winning with these culls.

You should see the pictures people email me and want me to ask me what I think of theirRhode Island Reds. So many times they are not Worthy of the name. Its hard to tell someone the got scrubs. But they keep sending me pictures and I tell them if you are happy with them that's what counts. I just dont want any on my place. You would think people who raise chickens would know a good bird from another even a good hatchery chicken from another not so good hatchery chicken. Most are stitll learning or dont want to know. Hopefully a few of you have learned something from these posts that you are reading on this site . Only 1 percent is what I am hoping fore in threads I started on this board the and the other 99 percent will be happy for the road they take.

New York Reds that bantam male you sent me is breeding all my bantam females right now. He is rotating from pen to pen each week. Hopefully in a month I will have a couple of dozen of his chicks then he is going into retirement till next year.

We dont see many Rhode Island Red Bantams on this post does anyone have any left anymore? They are getting very rare also. bob

 

[immyjay54]

Here is what I am thinking with my RIR's. I've had hatchery RIR and I've had the sex link that some say are a cross of RIR and X. Yes, these hens were really top notch layers of eggs that sometimes would not even fit in a jumbo egg carton. When I started reading a couple of years ago about the true RIR's and other breeds, I decided that I would rather have twice as many birds if that is what it takes to get the eggs that I need and know that I have some absolutely gorgeous red birds. I have not one thing wrong to say about anyone that wants the production birds, I've been there, but for my own personal satisfaction I decided to go with the real thing. I've never shown a chicken of any kind BUT I like to look at pretty. lol I'm doing what I decided to do on my own, no one talked me into it. I saw pictures of Chris 09 birds, NYREDS birds and many many others and that is the kind of chickens that I want to raise. If I have to raise more to supply my egg customers with eggs then so be it. And if these lay really well and produce enough without keeping to many then that will just be a plus. I've read that the heritage chickens lay longer then the hatchery birds, I personally don't know the answer to this, so whatever happens I'll deal with it but I will have the pure birds from now on. I just like the looks of them so much better.
I picked up 20 chicks from Dick Horstman yesterday RC RIR and Monday night I put 10 Don Nelson line eggs in lock down and all 10 of them hatched today. I am very excited about my RIR lines that I'll have for next year. Now is the hard part. Getting all the pens set up the way I want them to keep them separated and studying them and maybe even asking for some help from some of you folks to help me with the ones I should or should not keep.
I sincerely hope that I'm not coming across as a smart acting person or know it all. I am just someone that is a total newbie in the pure strains of our poultry lines and trying to start with some good lines that others have already done a lot of work on and I thank you all for that.
Jim