The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[Fred's Hens]

So it wouldn't necessarily be a terrible thing to do, then, if you wanted to pick a really amazing, meaty NH and thread it into a family breeding, see what happens... then theoretically 8 gens (or was it 10) you can breed it with your other families as if they were an infusion of RIR because at that point they'd be considered 'pure' again? Have the Germans done anything oddball with them on the other side of the pond... I know the color seems to have developed a little differently, but considering the long separation, pretty cool...

My guess is that it would make a mess that might take you 6 generations to bring back to the RIR Standard. "Pure" is a funny word in chickens. It's not so much genotype but phenotype.

Personally, at my age, I don't have 6 or 8 years to spend on such a project. Just sayin'. Not sure what the end game would be because IIRC the weights on the NH and RIR are virtually identical in the Standard.

 

[Robert Blosl]

if you go with these crazy people who want to cross a something onto a Rhode Island Red go for it. You will be out of reds in three years like most people who cross even another strain of R I reds onto their strain will have a night mare they do it every year and we call these guys here today gone tomorrow breeders. You stick with the line you got or if you don't like that line move onto one that makes you happy. Of course if you are a person that just wants four to six laying hens maybe no rooster makes no difference. You are not a preservationist.

Many people are what we call chicken collector's they have a few of these and that and have no reason to breed or try to improve their birds.

That is why its so hard to locate good strains of chickens for people just not enough good serous hard core breeders out there anymore.

Who do I send my entry to for the Baton Rouge Show? Got it made out. Matt 1616 plans to go as well.

Cant wait to attend this show and the one in Mississippi in Oct.

On vacation going fishing no computers no chickens no stress. See you next week, Keep the tread going.

 

[AletaG]

Bob, don't get all excited. And stay off the wood glue.

Historically, some breeds occasionally need a careful outcross to whatever they were bred from, to bring them back to standard,/beef up a trait. RIR didn't appear by magic, yeah? Took years of careful choices and work. I'm not saying *I* would do it. It's an intellectual exercise. Was, or was it not, an occasional practice by a thoughtful breeder, to bring in NH's? That's all. The bunny trails are all theoretical. Besides, what if there were someone a little unhinged and genius like Kathy who's starting from *scratch* who wanted to "build" an RIR from ground up? The breed doesn't NEED it, but I'd love to know, what went into the mix to make this gorgeous but amazingly utilitarian breed? Does that help your blood pressure at all?

Lay it on me! I wanna know!

I await your considered and illustrative (and hopefully nonviolent) response.

 

[catdaddyfro]

if you go with these crazy people who want to cross a something onto a Rhode Island Red go for it. You will be out of reds in three years like most people who cross even another strain of R I reds onto their strain will have a night mare they do it every year and we call these guys here today gone tomorrow breeders. You stick with the line you got or if you don't like that line move onto one that makes you happy. Of course if you are a person that just wants four to six laying hens maybe no rooster makes no difference. You are not a preservationist.

Many people are what we call chicken collector's they have a few of these and that and have no reason to breed or try to improve their birds.

That is why its so hard to locate good strains of chickens for people just not enough good serous hard core breeders out there anymore.

Who do I send my entry to for the Baton Rouge Show? Got it made out. Matt 1616 plans to go as well.

Cant wait to attend this show and the one in Mississippi in Oct.

On vacation going fishing no computers no chickens no stress. See you next week, Keep the tread going.

Its all for fun seriousness or not, Bob.


Toldjaso RIRs are a touchy subject with touchy people owning them and that my friends is what's called "PASSION" I don't know of another breed with the exception of the game fowlers that are more sensitive to their chosen ambition. huh?

Jeff

 

[AletaG]

Its all for fun seriousness or not, Bob.

Toldjaso RIRs are a touchy subject with touchy people owning them and that my friends is what's called "PASSION" I don't know of another breed with the exception of the game fowlers that are more sensitive to their chosen ambition. huh?

Jeff

Maybe there should be an advanced breeding theory thread for each breed. It's like when I got my first car, a VW bug. Loved that thing. Didn't have a clue how to work on it, just washed and waxed it incessantly. Didn't stop me from going to car shows and bugging racers with nitro tanks, or whatever. Subscribed to VW magazine, too. Like I was gonna be able to trick out my car like that. But it helped me take good care of my car, to the best of my ability. Talking theory is GOOD! Constant disclaimer of "ok, ok, I won't actually TRY that until I know what I'm doing" I think I am good at attaching! But, if there's a fear of contaminating newbie thought, a separate advanced thread would be fabulous. I'd listen, and pester, and try to sort it all out. That's how I show MY *Passion*!

 

[immyjay54]

Maybe there should be an advanced breeding theory thread for each breed. It's like when I got my first car, a VW bug. Loved that thing. Didn't have a clue how to work on it, just washed and waxed it incessantly. Didn't stop me from going to car shows and bugging racers with nitro tanks, or whatever. Subscribed to VW magazine, too. Like I was gonna be able to trick out my car like that. But it helped me take good care of my car, to the best of my ability. Talking theory is GOOD! Constant disclaimer of "ok, ok, I won't actually TRY that until I know what I'm doing" I think I am good at attaching! But, if there's a fear of contaminating newbie thought, a separate advanced thread would be fabulous. I'd listen, and pester, and try to sort it all out. That's how I show MY *Passion*!

Here's my thoughts on all this. First off, this thread is called The Heritage Rhode Island Red Thread. When anyone starts talking about mixing this or that in with them or changing something (that someone else over the years has probably tried) almost always opens a bad can of worms. It is sort of like taking a cat to a dog show. As for adding something to get vigor etc, It can be done with using distant generations of the same blood line. To my understanding, after reading many many times (and it's on my site - Bio by Gary Underwood) their line has been kept the same for almost 100 years. I'm sure that over all the years of the RIR, breeders have tried to correct different things that pop up but I don't think they would use a different breed to try and fix it. Folks may have tried things but didn't post it on this thread. My goodness, it is a big enough job for me and I'm sure others to pick out their best breeders, best egg layers etc from the lines that they have without trying to figure out what breed to cross in with each line.
As for what Kathy did, my understanding is that she took the old time Barred Rock and New Hampshire to get the Delaware. Now, if a person could know for sure and get all the different breeds that they crossed to get the original RIR and wanted to try it it would be fine and if I was to try something like this I would keep it to myself until I saw if I could succeed or not. lol
I'm really glad that I knew some of the breeders that I honestly believe have kept their lines pure so I could get my start. I will deal with the same folks if I need new blood later down the road because I honestly feel that I can trust them. I've talked via emails with lots of the top RIR breeders that are around today and have lots of folders with information that they have told me and the one thing that I can say has been expressed more then anything else from all of them is DON'T MIX THE DIFFERENT LINES.
I'm not being smart about this and whatever anyone would decide to do is their own business. I think there are enough of us around now that have the different lines that they will make a pretty good comeback and there will be enough that are just hard headed enough to keep these birds what they are supposed to be.
If you choose to mix them up, that is your option and I wouldn't say anything good or bad about it. Have fun, enjoy what you do however you choose to do it. Maybe the advanced theory thread would be a grand idea.
Jim

 

[monnie662]

Mines not mean. The most calmest birds I have so far.

I hope your birds don't ever get mean, because they will make you hurt yourself getting out of the way

 

[immyjay54]

I hope your birds don't ever get mean, because they will make you hurt yourself getting out of the way

Just a funny little story about the mean roosters. Well, I have two stories but one isn't funny. I had 7 sisters and 4 brothers all older then me. Anyway, one of my brothers when he was just a little boy, we had a big old RIR (supposedly) that ran up and picked a chunk out of my brothers lip and one of the older sisters ran that rooster down and rang his neck. Needless to say, he was supper. lol
The other is my brother next to me was always afraid of the roosters. He was standing my the cellar way tying his boots up and here came the boys. Sneaking up behind him. (3 of them, all full grown), and they all three jumped and hit him in the back end and down in the cellar he went. When he came up, he had one of the roos caught between his legs. Needless to say, we ate that roo also. lol Those 3 roo's really were better then a watch dog. Folks used to call my mom and ask is I had my chickens out before they would come to visit because it was a fair distance from where they parked the car to the house. lol It was funny then but I sure wouldn't want them today.
Jim

 

[catdaddyfro]

Here's my thoughts on all this. First off, this thread is called The Heritage Rhode Island Red Thread. When anyone starts talking about mixing this or that in with them or changing something (that someone else over the years has probably tried) almost always opens a bad can of worms. It is sort of like taking a cat to a dog show. As for adding something to get vigor etc, It can be done with using distant generations of the same blood line. To my understanding, after reading many many times (and it's on my site - Bio by Gary Underwood) their line has been kept the same for almost 100 years. I'm sure that over all the years of the RIR, breeders have tried to correct different things that pop up but I don't think they would use a different breed to try and fix it. Folks may have tried things but didn't post it on this thread. My goodness, it is a big enough job for me and I'm sure others to pick out their best breeders, best egg layers etc from the lines that they have without trying to figure out what breed to cross in with each line.
As for what Kathy did, my understanding is that she took the old time Barred Rock and New Hampshire to get the Delaware. Now, if a person could know for sure and get all the different breeds that they crossed to get the original RIR and wanted to try it it would be fine and if I was to try something like this I would keep it to myself until I saw if I could succeed or not. lol
I'm really glad that I knew some of the breeders that I honestly believe have kept their lines pure so I could get my start. I will deal with the same folks if I need new blood later down the road because I honestly feel that I can trust them. I've talked via emails with lots of the top RIR breeders that are around today and have lots of folders with information that they have told me and the one thing that I can say has been expressed more then anything else from all of them is DON'T MIX THE DIFFERENT LINES.
I'm not being smart about this and whatever anyone would decide to do is their own business. I think there are enough of us around now that have the different lines that they will make a pretty good comeback and there will be enough that are just hard headed enough to keep these birds what they are supposed to be.
If you choose to mix them up, that is your option and I wouldn't say anything good or bad about it. Have fun, enjoy what you do however you choose to do it. Maybe the advanced theory thread would be a grand idea.
Jim

I think if you'll go back far enough and read some of BOB's of all peoples post( Mr."DON"T NEVER EVER CROSS UP NOTHING")on here on the Underwoods birds they are a cross breed way back yonder with guess what of all things "production" Rhode Island Reds.??(its in this thread or the heritage one, somewhere/can be located I'm sure) Jimmy LOL oops another can of worms huh? (sorry)

Underwood was Bobs mentor on raising up RIRs he tells the whole story in the back pages on here.

I'm just one to remember stuff and folks need to "practice" what they "preach" is all, if your going to preach not crossing nothing up then turn around and do it yourself or tell someone to do it then who's opening up cans then?, instead of worms it is more like confusion. What is one to do? I say whatever they want to do. It's their birds, their feed, their time, = their MONEY.

 

[immyjay54]

I think if you'll go back far enough and read some of BOB's of all peoples post( Mr."DON"T NEVER EVER CROSS UP NOTHING")on here on the Underwoods birds they are a cross breed way back yonder with guess what of all things "production" Rhode Island Reds.??(its in this thread or the heritage one, somewhere/can be located I'm sure) Jimmy LOL oops another can of worms huh? (sorry)

Underwood was Bobs mentor on raising up RIRs he tells the whole story in the back pages on here.

I'm just one to remember stuff and folks need to "practice" what they "preach" is all, if your going to preach not crossing nothing up then turn around and do it yourself or tell someone to do it then who's opening up cans then?, instead of worms it is more like confusion. What is one to do? I say whatever they want to do. It's their birds, their feed, their time, = their MONEY.

Oh yes Jeff, I don't need to go back to read it. I remember it very well and I could show the email I have saved from Gary himself and you would see what he said about it and it IS NOT true. I have written on my site with Gary's Bio that if you want to know something about a man's certain line, go to the horses mouth. lol
Furthermore, I do not think that Gary Underwood would lie about such a thing if it were true.
Jim
This is all I have to say about this subject. Like you Jeff, I feel it is everyone's business what they do but as you know, It will always cause friction, confusion and sometimes ever cause tempers to flair. lol I think to much of all my internet friends on here to squabble with them over such minor things.