The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[immyjay54]

Read the next sentence after the one you bold typed Jimmy, LOL just like when you read the Bible, read at least the verse before and after the quoted scripture, in most cases. hey and too most don't want their "namedropped" on most of what they see called "theirs" anyhow J/S


Jeff

I read the whole thing But, the reason I only made the line that I did bold was because this is the line that has been said so many times. What I'm saying is, "Without taking the blood out of the chickens or adding different blood, would they not be the same birds?" When I got my chicks from Matt, I call them Matt's Reese line. Am I wrong on this? Believe me, I think if we mess them up, everyone would know that it sure wasn't the original breeders fault. lol
As for the Bible, I will in no way ever get into that.
Jim

 

[immyjay54]

What are the lay rates for the RIR lines that do lay well. I have heard that Kittle, Nelson, Underwood and Fogel lay well, if I am not mistaken. What can one expect, say at their peak in their pullet year, outside of winter or other stress factors. Would they have a lay rate of at least 50%, an egg every other day?

Thanks,

Mark

Mark,
If you go to my site, there is a page egg production 2013 that I have been keeping on some of my birds. It has how many birds I'm using and how many eggs each week then each month. I hope this helps.
Jim

 

[Fentress]

thanks

 

[Fred's Hens]

Each line may have a certain lay rate, if you will. But, remember, that now, you as the breeder? You can push them toward better laying if that is a goal of your program. One way is to mark the earlier feathering birds. If you keep doing this, using your quicker feathering birds, you'll very likely increase your laying abilities. This is only important to those who wish it. For other folks, conformation or other virtues may rule their program.

So alot of this comes down to the goals of the breeder. That said, you aren't likely to make these old line Reds into 300 eggers. There is a balancing, high wire to walk here. Type and production. I believe in a (heritage) bird maintaining its heritage. If it was a dual purpose bird, then the carcass should have meat and the eggs should be there. I do not want a Rock or a Red that cannot lay 180 eggs a year, or every other day on average. That's fine.

There are some exotic breeds now that have been bred down to less than 20 eggs per year. I do not believe an American Class, dual purpose bird should ever lose its way. Just my passion for these old birds, that's all. The purpose of the SOP is the utility that should go along. Utility wasn't a bad word 100 years ago, but was a proud word.

 

[Fentress]

Thanks Fred, I value your perspective. 180 eggs a year would be very good. That is more than an egg every other day, counting the down turn for winter. Even my hatchery pullets dipped below a 50% rate last winter. It's good to hear that I can take an established line and breed for production and the genes will be there, if that is my emphasis. Matt said something similar just recently when we were discussing meat qualities. Just got to find the time to buckle down and get some reading done. I've downloaded Call of the Hen and a few others.

Thanks again

mark

 

[immyjay54]

thanks

Mark,
There is also a page on my site "Breeding Rhode Island Red for Egg Production." It is down toward the bottom of the drop down. This may help you also. Fred has a lot of it pretty well down or maybe he's been reading my site information. lol Just kidding Fred. Don't you dare throw a rotten egg at me. ha,ha
I'm getting to old to run to fast.
Jim
I can tell you this much, with the weather being the way it was this year has caused the most crazy molts on my birds that I've ever seen and that caused the egg production to change drastically also. I have approx 40 birds of different breeds in my layer flock right now and tonight I only got 9 eggs. I even have a light on in there that comes on at 5 AM and goes off at 9 PM. That is the only pen that I have a light in. I'm not worrying about the reds pen's. I'll just let them act naturally. lol

 

[BGMatt]

I read the whole thing But, the reason I only made the line that I did bold was because this is the line that has been said so many times. What I'm saying is, "Without taking the blood out of the chickens or adding different blood, would they not be the same birds?" When I got my chicks from Matt, I call them Matt's Reese line. Am I wrong on this? Believe me, I think if we mess them up, everyone would know that it sure wasn't the original breeders fault. lol
As for the Bible, I will in no way ever get into that.
Jim

It's the fact that if a line is known for certain qualities, and someone doesn't, or isn't capable of selecting for those qualities, then they are not representatives of the original line. As far as people knowing if you messed them up, people sometimes don't see how or why production birds are messed up, you're giving people way too much credit. So much can change positively or negatively in just a couple years of breeding, it is safer, and in some ways more respectful to no longer call them "<insert popular line name here> Reds" when that person is no longer making the breeding decisions even though no new blood is introduced. Sure the genotype is the same, but the phenotype may not be (if that could be locked in place so tightly nobody would ever have to cull), and the production may not be the same either.

 

[immyjay54]

It's the fact that if a line is known for certain qualities, and someone doesn't, or isn't capable of selecting for those qualities, then they are not representatives of the original line. As far as people knowing if you messed them up, people sometimes don't see how or why production birds are messed up, you're giving people way too much credit. So much can change positively or negatively in just a couple years of breeding, it is safer, and in some ways more respectful to no longer call them "<insert popular line name here> Reds" when that person is no longer making the breeding decisions even though no new blood is introduced. Sure the genotype is the same, but the phenotype may not be (if that could be locked in place so tightly nobody would ever have to cull), and the production may not be the same either.

See, this is why I didn't want to say anything about this. It is going into to many directions. I only need a yes or a no. Very simple. Do I have Underwood chicks in my basement that I hatched from eggs that came from Underwood birds or do I not. When folks say they want a Reese or Nelson line bird, if what you folks are saying we can not tell them to contact so and so because Reese is no longer living and Don Nelson is not selling any of the Nelson LF at this point?

 

[har]

BJMatt I know what you are saying about not using the oringinal breeders name but people are not geared to that. They like that big name when they are out there buying chickens. I lost a sale a short time ago where this guy had some well named BR history but my BR's do not have that big name but look as good. Guess who lost!! In all this I liked it when Bob would type KISS.

Scott

 

[BGMatt]

See, this is why I didn't want to say anything about this. It is going into to many directions. I only need a yes or a no. Very simple. Do I have Underwood chicks in my basement that I hatched from eggs that came from Underwood birds or do I not. When folks say they want a Reese or Nelson line bird, if what you folks are saying we can not tell them to contact so and so because Reese is no longer living and Don Nelson is not selling any of the Nelson LF at this point?

I think strictly speaking there is no right or wrong. Was just trying to point out why there are so many different answers. If I got birds from you for instance and someone asked I would refer to them (the exact birds from you) as Jim's Reds with an Underwood ancestry. That way both you and the original breeder get credit. Years down the road I'd simply say "These are my Reds but I got my start from Jim, which goes way back to Underwood stock". I think though that once you leave BYC and newcomers to poultry very few people ever ask about lines or ancestry, they jsut are looking for good birds, so maybe educating along those lines is best? Who knows. I can tell you even though I have only been in Standard Bred poultry for ~20 years, I had never once been asked, or told what "line" someones birds were until I found BYC.

No right, no wrong, just food for thought. Sorry to cause trouble.

Edit: Scott, you're probably better off not selling to someone that thinks like that. Then you'd have people selling horrible birds down the road with your name attached to them! LOL