The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

Jimmy, there is a gentleman in GA who is doing just what you mentioned.
He has RC Hortsman birds and has purchased two RC Underwood cockerels to put over then in hopes of improvement. I will be very curious to see how that goes.
 
We also have some birds descended down from Mr Kittle. The birds are super friendly and great layers. Yes, as Jimmy pointed out, the tails need work. No doubt about it. However, the last set of photos taken of the Kittle/Horstman birds last spring for the Chronicle showed much improved birds. I believe the guys up there in Pennsylvania, Dick and Wolford are working on them. They looked far better than the older versions of Kittle birds that Jimmy, Donnie or I had/have.

I'm quite undecided whether to try one more year with them. I'm down to just a handful and with the Nelson's coming up and our Rocks, the space issues and so forth come into play.

97 year Mr Kittle was featured in the spring Reds Chronicle and has run an advertisement in the APA Yearbook forever. His motto was/is "Bred to the Standard, Bred to Lay", and lay they do.

No doubt that.

Nobody ever worked longer with the Reds than Mr. Kittle and I tip my hat to the old guy. He'd change up his "brew", if he felt like it. He wasn't one of the guys who just bred a single line forever and ever.
 
Jimmy, there is a gentleman in GA who is doing just what you mentioned.
He has RC Hortsman birds and has purchased two RC Underwood cockerels to put over then in hopes of improvement. I will be very curious to see how that goes.
There is only one thing that I say about this. I hope that folks that are doing any cross keep records of it and never sell them to anyone representing them as being pure this or that. That is one thing that I'm always afraid of. They will be pure reds but they will be that persons line. They could create a wonderful line like Don Nelson did years ago but he had to work on them for quite a while and said that he had lots of no no's before he got what the Nelson line is now a days. lol
 
We also have some birds descended down from Mr Kittle. The birds are super friendly and great layers. Yes, as Jimmy pointed out, the tails need work. No doubt about it. However, the last set of photos taken of the Kittle/Horstman birds last spring for the Chronicle showed much improved birds. I believe the guys up there in Pennsylvania, Dick and Wolford are working on them. They looked far better than the older versions of Kittle birds that Jimmy, Donnie or I had/have.

I'm quite undecided whether to try one more year with them. I'm down to just a handful and with the Nelson's coming up and our Rocks, the space issues and so forth come into play.

97 year Mr Kittle was featured in the spring Reds Chronicle and has run an advertisement in the APA Yearbook forever. His motto was/is "Bred to the Standard, Bred to Lay", and lay they do.

No doubt that.

Nobody ever worked longer with the Reds than Mr. Kittle and I tip my hat to the old guy. He'd change up his "brew", if he felt like it. He wasn't one of the guys who just bred a single line forever and ever.
Thanks so much Fred for ;your input on this subject. Sometimes I hate opening a new thing on this thread because I'm alway so afraid that some may take me as talking down on certain lines which I will never do. And I agree 100%, the later birds do look a lot different then what I started out with. As I said, the only big fault that I see in them is that the males tails are a little higher then I'd prefer but, I've only seen pictures of them. They may look a lot different in real life. I also agree that when we have more then one line, breed the space factor comes into play. lol How well I know this.
Jim
 



Hey, Jim!! Here's the oldest Nelson pullet. She's about 21 weeks now. Sweetest bird ever. Love her to pieces.

Here's the three younger ones. Let's see,…hmmmm….just about 10.5 weeks now. And if folks are wondering, yes indeed, these Nelsons just keep going darker and darker and darker as they age. At this age, in the bright sun, they don't yet look like they will later on.

 

Yessir Mr. Fred, that is one dark girl. I also see the nice yellow legs and she also appears to have nice black in the tail and a nice breast for her age. I have 3 different lines and both varieties of the Underwood and I've tossed the idea around of only keeping two lines but there is no way that I can make up my mind which to stop with. ha,ha. Every line has such good points that I will probably just have to keep them all and just not have quite as many of each line. They are all sooooo nice. I just really love these red's.


Hey, Jim!! Here's the oldest Nelson pullet. She's about 21 weeks now. Sweetest bird ever. Love her to pieces.

Here's the three younger ones. Let's see,…hmmmm….just about 10.5 weeks now. And if folks are wondering, yes indeed, these Nelsons just keep going darker and darker and darker as they age. At this age, in the bright sun, they don't yet look like they will later on.



Is that a little boy on the left? Can't tell to much from the distance but they all look really nice. I can't tell you how happy it makes me to know that you have this many to start with.
Jim
 
The Horstman reds are just fine for the average person just wanting reds. They lay well, look the part, play the part, and I'm sure with some selective breedings and time one could get them to show stopping goodness. The one thing about it is generally you won't have to wait 3-4-5 months(in breeding season) to get some like you would the other "name brands" These will fill the bill unless you've just GOT TO have a specific source/line of reds.

Lots of folks cross lines/strains they do it all the time one must know where he's heading and in what direction to get the results sought after though, or you'll just end up with a bunch of soso RIRred chickens. All the name brand chickens in the world won't do this person anymore good than the next if they don't know what they are doing in selecting the traits for the next generation they will all start to head in all different directions no matter what you started out with. This is where breeding comes in, not just procreation, the chickens if left all by themselfs can handle the latter part all on their own.

Another thing is after a person buys or get a certain line of birds and he then breeds the next generation from them they are no longer Mr or Mrs so on and so forths line anyhow. They then are merely descendants from the "said line"as those folk didn't have a thing in the world to do with the outcome of your hatch. All one can do then is say they were out of the "whomevers" stock. It only takes one foul up/ or trait change eg.(tail angle or length) in one breeding/selection/mating to ruin the whole barrel and the resulting product to be nothing like the ones started out with. J/S
smile.png


Good day

Jeff
 
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The Horstman reds are just fine for the average person just wanting reds. They lay well, look the part, play the part, and I'm sure with some selective breedings and time one could get them to show stopping goodness. The one thing about it is generally you won't have to wait 3-4-5 months(in breeding season) to get some like you would the other "name brands" These will fill the bill unless you've just GOT TO have a specific source/line of reds.

Lots of folks cross lines/strains they do it all the time one must know where he's heading and in what direction to get the results sought after though, or you'll just end up with a bunch of soso RIRred chickens. All the name brand chickens in the world won't do this person anymore good than the next if they don't know what they are doing in selecting the traits for the next generation they will all start to head in all different directions no matter what you started out with. This is where breeding comes in, not just procreation, the chickens if left all by themselfs can handle the latter part all on their own.

Another thing is after a person buys or get a certain line of birds and he then breeds the next generation from them they are no longer Mr or Mrs so on and so forths line anyhow. They then are merely descendants from the "said line"as those folk didn't have a thing in the world to do with the outcome of your hatch. All one can do then is say they were out of the "whomevers" stock. It only takes one foul up/ or trait change eg.(tail angle or length) in one breeding/selection/mating to ruin the whole barrel and the resulting product to be nothing like the ones started out with. J/S
smile.png


Good day

Jeff
Well Jeff I finally have to say that I 100% totally disagree with what ;you are saying here. Don Nelson said the same thing on RIRCA and I was going to put my comment on their but I didn't want to hear a certain persons comments and have to delete the whole face book thing. lol
Now, throw out everything except COMMON SENSE. The only way to say that the line is not the same line is if you add another line to it. Then it becomes another mixture. If I take a Reese, Nelson, Underwood or whatever bloodline cockerel/cock bird and mate him with a Reese, Nelson, Underwood or whatever bloodline as long as the two are the same, would you please explain to me how it becomes something other then that bloodline. I am totally confused over all this. I bought chicks from Gary Underwood last winter that has been in his family for 100 years come Apr 2014. I did not do any blood transfusion or anything like that so now PLEASE tell me how the chicks out of these birds will not be Underwood line birds. I have chicks in my basement right now out of the Underwood RC's so now what do I tell folks if they ask what line they are. They are not my line, I did nothing to create anything, I did not remove or add blood, they are the exact same blood that their parents were. Am I right or not?
No, I am not angry with you but I have heard this so many times over the years and I just couldn't keep my mouth shut any longer. This is open to anyone to answer. Don't bring in all the genetic stuff because that would just be a bunch of bunk. Just explain to me how the bloodline changes just because I bought them and bred them.
Jim
 
Well Jeff I finally have to say that I 100% totally disagree with what ;you are saying here. Don Nelson said the same thing on RIRCA and I was going to put my comment on their but I didn't want to hear a certain persons comments and have to delete the whole face book thing. lol
Now, throw out everything except COMMON SENSE. The only way to say that the line is not the same line is if you add another line to it. Then it becomes another mixture. If I take a Reese, Nelson, Underwood or whatever bloodline cockerel/cock bird and mate him with a Reese, Nelson, Underwood or whatever bloodline as long as the two are the same, would you please explain to me how it becomes something other then that bloodline. I am totally confused over all this. I bought chicks from Gary Underwood last winter that has been in his family for 100 years come Apr 2014. I did not do any blood transfusion or anything like that so now PLEASE tell me how the chicks out of these birds will not be Underwood line birds. I have chicks in my basement right now out of the Underwood RC's so now what do I tell folks if they ask what line they are. They are not my line, I did nothing to create anything, I did not remove or add blood, they are the exact same blood that their parents were. Am I right or not?
No, I am not angry with you but I have heard this so many times over the years and I just couldn't keep my mouth shut any longer. This is open to anyone to answer. Don't bring in all the genetic stuff because that would just be a bunch of bunk. Just explain to me how the bloodline changes just because I bought them and bred them.
Jim
Read the next sentence after the one you bold typed Jimmy, LOL just like when you read the Bible, read at least the verse before and after the quoted scripture, in most cases. hey and too most don't want their "namedropped" on most of what they see called "theirs" anyhow J/S


Jeff
 
We also have some birds descended down from Mr Kittle. The birds are super friendly and great layers. Yes, as Jimmy pointed out, the tails need work. No doubt about it. However, the last set of photos taken of the Kittle/Horstman birds last spring for the Chronicle showed much improved birds. I believe the guys up there in Pennsylvania, Dick and Wolford are working on them. They looked far better than the older versions of Kittle birds that Jimmy, Donnie or I had/have.

I'm quite undecided whether to try one more year with them. I'm down to just a handful and with the Nelson's coming up and our Rocks, the space issues and so forth come into play.

97 year Mr Kittle was featured in the spring Reds Chronicle and has run an advertisement in the APA Yearbook forever. His motto was/is "Bred to the Standard, Bred to Lay", and lay they do.

No doubt that.

Nobody ever worked longer with the Reds than Mr. Kittle and I tip my hat to the old guy. He'd change up his "brew", if he felt like it. He wasn't one of the guys who just bred a single line forever and ever.

What are the lay rates for the RIR lines that do lay well. I have heard that Kittle, Nelson, Underwood and Fogel lay well, if I am not mistaken. What can one expect, say at their peak in their pullet year, outside of winter or other stress factors. Would they have a lay rate of at least 50%, an egg every other day?

Thanks,

Mark
 

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