The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[FOGELLY]

Chris,
Would you say that the 1st bird in Bobs above post is a little low by SOP?
I would, but it looks a lot better than being to high. I have a 2 year old that had the same tail angle at this age (looking at the spurs)
When he molted and grew back in, the angle is now around 35 degrees.
The bird in my avatar was hatched in March of this year, I hope it doesn't happen with him.

Ron

 

[NYREDS]

as a beginner dont beat yourself up on wing coloring. Focus on shape more. Here is a very good picture of black markings in a bantam which is the same on a large fowl.

Sometimes the secondary color is not alot or only maybe 20 or 30 percent of what it should be. You can ad some each year as you go. Many breeders felt one of the reasons the black could not get into the wings was from the blockage of the yellow factor in the color make up of the reds. When you had big globs of black on the female neck feathers this blocked the black to go where it should go. Chris picture is I think from a book from England on Reds many years ago. It shows you how ever what the point should be on ticking. Many of the strains we have in the coutnry do not have this. So be patient and over time you can slowly correct these faults. Cant be done by a rookie in a couple of years maybe five or ten. Have fun and keep showing good stuff like this. If the female had feathers like you showed I would try to breed her to a male clean in the neck and came from a dam or mother that was as close to ticking as I could get. You can also mate the top ckl of this female back to her and then again the next year and many times inbreeding washes or weekens the color or the fault. The best pullets could be mated back to the sire for two or three years or his brother and then the pullets will still have the dark color of the original female you like and the pullets three years latter wil be clean of defects. It should work that is what others did years ago to keep the color in the middle of the road


.http://www.rhodeislandredclub.eu/index.html

The colour is nice but I really like the width & roundness of those feathers. You see so many with narrow, pointed wing feathers.

 

[Chris09]

Chris,
Would you say that the 1st bird in Bobs above post is a little low by SOP?
I would, but it looks a lot better than being to high. I have a 2 year old that had the same tail angle at this age (looking at the spurs)
When he molted and grew back in, the angle is now around 35 degrees.
The bird in my avatar was hatched in March of this year, I hope it doesn't happen with him.
Ron

Yes, I would say the tail angle on that first bird is real close to 10 degrees and below what the SOP calls for.

Chris

 

[Robert Blosl]

Bob maybe you can answer this for me (you talk to far more people than I do), Why are so many Red breeders breeding for low to no tail angle in there fowl?

I see pictures here, on the Red Club Site and at some of the shows I been to and I think that would be a real nice bird if it had correct tail angle.


Thanks,
Chris

This male has a pretty good lift and as a 18 month cock bird should be right on the money with out loosing to much of his lenth of back. He should also fill out some. I dont know if he has any of Greg Chamness blood in him or not but if he does he will add weight and size and sometimes get shorter in tail lenth as a cock bird.



I dont know if they mean to. Some Red Ckls have a lift like you want Chris but when they molt as cock birds they are 5 to 10 degrees above that of a Ckl. In my old line my ckls may only have a 5 to 10 degree lift but as cock bird they had the correct angle or maybe -5 degrees. If I fault them for this how much of a cut would I give them. 1/2 a point. What happens say in a Red Bantam pullet. She has a good underline but has a top line like a new ham shire. If there was a prize for best Red of the show of $100. would you give it to the pullet or the male with the lower top line.

The cut on the pullet should be at least 3 points in my view. She is a cull and should have her head rung off. But I am not a judge just a guy with a key board in front of me.

I really dont pay much attention to the tail angle as in the standard. I have one Red bantam pullet that has this lift. I am mating her to her grand father this year that has only a ten degree lift at five years of age. Maybe she will help me. I just look at the bird as the whole. They are going to have faults maybe at least five points of faults. But this is still a 95 point bird and thats a good red.

I dont know. Many of the nice ckls I have seen this year dont have flat backs but sure dont have the Schilling lift you are talking about. On the Plymouth Rock tread they are talking about the lifts in the Rocks. There is no sway back kind of flat line in the rocks with the normal rise as in the standard. Why do people breed their Rocks to have a lift from the neck to the tail like a Wyandotte they are asking.

All I can say is the birds I am seeing this year have brick shape, good type and color and much improved from the last two years.

I will see a male this Saturday that I fell in love with a few months ago. He is from my old line out of Illinois. I will take pictures of him at the show and post him on here.

He should be even better than he was three weeks ago.

Maybe Bill can tune in on his thoughts. He has seen Bobby's male and some of his own as well as some of Dons birds which is a fine strain. bob

https://www.facebook.com/MomsOriginalsInc?ref=mf#!/groups/393983650675714/photos/

For you LURKERS who come to this site who want to read up on Rhode Island Reds go to the Face Book site and see all the dark Rhode Island Reds. If yours are not like these in color you dont have the real Rhode Island Reds.

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:

About 100 yards from my house.

 

[Chris09]

This male has a pretty good lift and as a 18 month cock bird should be right on the money with out loosing to much of his lenth of back. He should also fill out some. I dont know if he has any of Greg Chamness blood in him or not but if he does he will add weight and size and sometimes get shorter in tail lenth as a cock bird.

To me at a year and a half (18 month) a Red should have correct tail angle and hold that angle through out there molt. In fact I cull at 12 month for poor tail angle.

To be honest, I think a lot of these breeders are breeding a lower tail angle to make the bird look to have a longer back and/or they are just worried about keeping the "Big Point" items correct and not worried about keeping the over all type correct.
Now If am correct in what I am thinking, how are these breeders helping the breed at all?


Chris

 

[catdaddyfro]

To me at a year and a half (18 month) a Red should have correct tail angle and hold that angle through out there molt. In fact I cull at 12 month for poor tail angle.

To be honest, I think a lot of these breeders are breeding a lower tail angle to make the bird look to have a longer back and/or they are just worried about keeping the "Big Point" items correct and not worried about keeping the over all type correct.
Now I am correct in what I am thinking, how are these breeders helping the breed at all?


Chris

I've seen/noticed this too Chris and they look like Cubalayas darn near it, I believe Bob maybe some others have called these "rainyday reds"
To me there's lots of difference in 0*/10* angle and 35* to 40* ask some folks that have may have shown 45* angle on 35* breed type may just get them second or third in placing (no biggie that's ONLY 10* degrees off right)

Jeff

 

[FOGELLY]

I would rather have a bird with 0-10* tail than 35*+
But that is just me. I like the look better.
I also don't think it is up to me to change the standard. If I choose to breed them that way and show them,they should be judged by the standard.

Just to be clear I don't purposely breed for low set tails. The cockerel in my avatar came from a rooster with little to no lift but he was breed to a hen with a nice tail to correct the tail.

Ron

 

[Chris09]

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[japman117201]

Good one NYReds! Do you have Don Nelson's Reds?