The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[NestingHillsSC]

OK Bob... can I ask some newbie questions here?
I've been studying this particular post repeatedly... I have printed it out for my files.
Very interesting concepts, especially compared to other types of animal breeding I have done.
So here are my questions...
When your top 2 females return to the breeding pen the following year, are they returning as the only 2 females in the pen? or are they added to the previous years females from that pen? If they are returning alone, where are the previous years females?
Similar question for the roos... I understand that the best roo resulting from Pen 1 will become king in Pen 2 the following year, but at the end of each breeding season, are they ever used again? Breed back on? Disposed of?

Probably silly questions for those of you who do this, but the line breeding I have done with other types of livestock I have frequently held out an excellent sire for several years and then gone back to him - a different sort of line breeding.
Now mind you... I have no problem eating any of them... I simply wasn't certain how or IF you were breeding birds beyond their first year.

Thanks for the explanations... I am really enjoying this thread and learning a lot.

Very good question!

 

[NestingHillsSC]

Love that picture. I have a devil of a time attaching this box with my old article from 20 years ago. When I lost my first web site I copied this article but could never get the picture to go with it. My wife made this for me and its the ticket to enplane the concept.

Lets say you have four family's. You pick the best one or two pullets and put them back into the pen their egg was layed in. A example the chick from pen two goes back to pen two to lay her eggs, then the best female a pullet goes to pen three where her egg came from and down the way to pen four and one. However, in the males the top male and his brother is put in a spare pen to stay incase you need a male if the top one is sterile or he dies on you. However, the top ckl from pen one goes into pen two the top male goes into pen three and the top male from pen four goes into pen one. You always rotate the male to the right each year the top females goes back into their house they came out of.

You can have two families and you can have a partner who has two family's. Lets say you take the top male to a show from pen two and you friend puts him in pen three at his house. Then you take his top male from pen four and put in your pen one pen. This way you both can just focus on two family's and not have a total of four which is very costly. It would be better for a single breeder to just have three family's. with this system.

There is a question in this madness what happens if last years male mated to a nice pullet produces a Champion Large Fowl of the show chick.

Should you kill these birds? Should you mate the best ckl from say pen three to his mother? Or the best pullet his sister to the old male again?

This is a nice system on paper but you got to have some common sense in breeding. You could even have a third partner and give them the great pair to hatch out some good birds.

I like inbreeding good birds back to others for say three seasons then rotate them to the right and inbreed those birds for three years. This is breeding 104.

The beginner does not need to worry about this but look down the road in three years and have some type of plan. The first two years is learn to breed for type and learn to keep them alive and in three years you will get it all together. PATIENTS is the secret.

The breeders you used say last year can be sold to beginners or given to beginners to start their pens to start. The object of this method is to improved each year with better typed and colored birds.

I'm so confused!

 

[Fred's Hens]

BTW on all these HRIR strains their true in person color is next to impossible to capture in a picture. At least for me it is.


Ron

You said a mouthful there. I have a crappy camera and no skills as a photographer. In person, the bird is a shimmering, dark bing cherry and on the camera result? Ugh!!! Some kind of washed out completely WRONG color. Frustrating. Those of you who take such awesome photos have my highest respect and admiration.

For example, here are some of Mr Kittle's birds. I have these same birds. Yet, I cannot capture this color when I photograph mine. Somewhat frustrating. I gonna have to sign up for photography class at the community continuing education.

So, Ron if I show photos of your birds in the future, I apologize in advance.

For sure? Even my bad photography won't hide the type you have on your birds.

Fred

 

[NikonD2xer]

Getting true to color photos is next to impossible. The biggest problem is the way our eyes and brain work together. The brain adjusts the color it thinks our eyes sees. The brain will even guess or make up colors for us.

All this before it even gets complicated with technology. Color is a major headache even for us professional photographers that understand all about the equipment we use.

many use a color checker ( a card with different color blocks on it that have a known color value.

we have custom white balances setup in cameras or make one for each location or each time the light changes including when flash is used.

after photos are taken we process them on our computers to make sure everything is seeing the same colors. We calibrate cameras, monitors, scanners, and printers. When I work on a computer i do so in complete darkness because any light will change the color i am seeing on the monitor.

When you guys post a photo....the chances of 2 people seeing the same color in the same photo is extremely remote. If you find them....run and hide after you buy a lottery ticket because lightning will be striking very close to you

If you have any question about photography and or color......let me know...more than willing to help.

I am gaining a lot of info here for the day i may be able to get some of these amazing birds.

 

[FOGELLY]

I'm so confused!

It can be if you let it.
No you don't just breed from pullets or cockerels. You breed fathers and grandfathers back to their offspring and vise versa.
As you move forward you keep you best females and males phasing out birds that you may have used just because that is all you had. Still keeping your good older birds.

The longer you go and the better eye you develop you will want to do some single matings for certain traits. You will also find you will need to raise a lot less birds to get the ones you want.

Nothing is cut in stone. Just take special care to keep up with what you do. You will think you will remember but you won't.

Breed with a purpose and goal. Don't just chunk them in with each other and expect good results.

I spend a lot of time sitting on a milk crate and looking at my birds, before making decisions.

Ron

 

[RedRidge]

It can be if you let it.
No you don't just breed from pullets or cockerels. You breed fathers and grandfathers back to their offspring and vise versa.
As you move forward you keep you best females and males phasing out birds that you may have used just because that is all you had. Still keeping your good older birds.

...

Ron

Ah... that's the answer I was looking for... very clear now... thanks.
And thank goodness for the internet... makes you wonder how folks 100 years ago gathered all the information to do what works best and learn from others.
Thanks for the invaluable support you experienced folks provide here.

 

[NestingHillsSC]

It can be if you let it.
No you don't just breed from pullets or cockerels. You breed fathers and grandfathers back to their offspring and vise versa.
As you move forward you keep you best females and males phasing out birds that you may have used just because that is all you had. Still keeping your good older birds.

The longer you go and the better eye you develop you will want to do some single matings for certain traits. You will also find you will need to raise a lot less birds to get the ones you want.

Nothing is cut in stone. Just take special care to keep up with what you do. You will think you will remember but you won't.

Breed with a purpose and goal. Don't just chunk them in with each other and expect good results.

I spend a lot of time sitting on a milk crate and looking at my birds, before making decisions.

Ron

Well there Ron, you know this coming February I will be calling.

First time around should be sort of easy. Only have so many birds to chose from. 2 roos 8 hens. But again, I will be calling. HAHAHA

 

[Mumsy]

It can be if you let it.
No you don't just breed from pullets or cockerels. You breed fathers and grandfathers back to their offspring and vise versa.
As you move forward you keep you best females and males phasing out birds that you may have used just because that is all you had. Still keeping your good older birds.

The longer you go and the better eye you develop you will want to do some single matings for certain traits. You will also find you will need to raise a lot less birds to get the ones you want.

Nothing is cut in stone. Just take special care to keep up with what you do. You will think you will remember but you won't.

Breed with a purpose and goal. Don't just chunk them in with each other and expect good results.

I spend a lot of time sitting on a milk crate and looking at my birds, before making decisions.

Ron

Great advice. Looks like I may have ten or more cockerels to choose from and it's going to smoke my head to try and narrow those guys down to a couple. I'll be checking in with you too with a bunch of images of the contenders to sift through. For now, I just watch these babies eat, grow, and thrive waiting for the chance to make a difference with this strain in the far Pacific North West corner of the world.

 

[BGMatt]

Great advice. Looks like I may have ten or more cockerels to choose from and it's going to smoke my head to try and narrow those guys down to a couple. I'll be checking in with you too with a bunch of images of the contenders to sift through. For now, I just watch these babies eat, grow, and thrive waiting for the chance to make a difference with this strain in the far Pacific North West corner of the world.

Will be nice to see more reds up here. When I was younger and showing a lot there was always plenty of them between the late Vern Sorenson and the relocated Gene Bunting, when the PNPA just had their show I don't think I saw any...it was kind of sad honestly.

 

[FOGELLY]

Great advice. Looks like I may have ten or more cockerels to choose from and it's going to smoke my head to try and narrow those guys down to a couple. I'll be checking in with you too with a bunch of images of the contenders to sift through. For now, I just watch these babies eat, grow, and thrive waiting for the chance to make a difference with this strain  in the far Pacific North West corner of the world.

When the time comes to select your keepers, you may consider finding a partner within driving distance of you. Send your two next best cockerels and pullets to them.
You never know when you may need them back.
I lost one of my males this last week to what appeared to be a snake bite. Copperheads have been very active here this spring, both of my dogs have been bitten also. They recovered.
Thankfully I have a very nice male loaned to a trusted friend.
If you only keep the bare minimum something is bound to happen. Try to have a few in reserve.

Ron