The Heritage Rhode Island Red Site

[immyjay54]

I think strictly speaking there is no right or wrong. Was just trying to point out why there are so many different answers. If I got birds from you for instance and someone asked I would refer to them (the exact birds from you) as Jim's Reds with an Underwood ancestry. That way both you and the original breeder get credit. Years down the road I'd simply say "These are my Reds but I got my start from Jim, which goes way back to Underwood stock". I think though that once you leave BYC and newcomers to poultry very few people ever ask about lines or ancestry, they jsut are looking for good birds, so maybe educating along those lines is best? Who knows. I can tell you even though I have only been in Standard Bred poultry for ~20 years, I had never once been asked, or told what "line" someones birds were until I found BYC.

No right, no wrong, just food for thought. Sorry to cause trouble.

Edit: Scott, you're probably better off not selling to someone that thinks like that. Then you'd have people selling horrible birds down the road with your name attached to them! LOL

Hey Matt, Scott, Jeff and whoever else. I'm certainly not mad, angry nor upset with any of you and I know exactly what you all are saying. The only thing gets me is when we are talking to someone and mention the name of an old line (me for example) giving them credit for what they did many years ago, and someone says there is no such thing. Now I can show you what I'm talking about: " Hi folks..I need some suggestions as to who to contact that has the best and oldest mohawk/reese lines".. and this is the answer he got: " no such bird Dan,once another person has mated up the birds,the old line is gone," Now don't you think that that is a slap in the face to the old timers that worked so hard to produce these certain old lines. Maybe I'm just a little to sensitive. lol
Matt, I know exactly what you are saying and that is why I call my birds from Matt1616 the Matt's Reese birds. lol I want to give Matt all the credit that he deserves and anyone else like Ron Fogel or anyone else that has/is doing such a wonderful job at keeping these old lines going and starting so many others with them. Here's the other thing also that I was thinking. When anyone buys from Gary Underwood, he is always there to tell us how to mate them up even going by the toe punch which one to which if folks want his help. I would not call that not having anything to do with breeding them.
Maybe some folks don't know the difference in some of these lines.
Okay, this is all I'm saying about this subject because I don't want anyone getting upset with me. lol No, seriously I'm not upset with anyone and we can all feel the way we want. It just upsets me to think that all the old timers are just getting thrown to the curb with all the hard work that they had done. I for one will always be appreciative of their hard work.
Jim

 

[BGMatt]

Hey Matt, Scott, Jeff and whoever else. I'm certainly not mad, angry nor upset with any of you and I know exactly what you all are saying. The only thing gets me is when we are talking to someone and mention the name of an old line (me for example) giving them credit for what they did many years ago, and someone says there is no such thing. Now I can show you what I'm talking about: " Hi folks..I need some suggestions as to who to contact that has the best and oldest mohawk/reese lines".. and this is the answer he got: " no such bird Dan,once another person has mated up the birds,the old line is gone," Now don't you think that that is a slap in the face to the old timers that worked so hard to produce these certain old lines. Maybe I'm just a little to sensitive. lol
Matt, I know exactly what you are saying and that is why I call my birds from Matt1616 the Matt's Reese birds. lol I want to give Matt all the credit that he deserves and anyone else like Ron Fogel or anyone else that has/is doing such a wonderful job at keeping these old lines going and starting so many others with them. Here's the other thing also that I was thinking. When anyone buys from Gary Underwood, he is always there to tell us how to mate them up even going by the toe punch which one to which if folks want his help. I would not call that not having anything to do with breeding them.
Maybe some folks don't know the difference in some of these lines.
Okay, this is all I'm saying about this subject because I don't want anyone getting upset with me. lol No, seriously I'm not upset with anyone and we can all feel the way we want. It just upsets me to think that all the old timers are just getting thrown to the curb with all the hard work that they had done. I for one will always be appreciative of their hard work.
Jim

Yup, I appreciate all their hard work too. I kind of see it the other way a lot in other breeds. I see the old timers names being used to sell birds that they would have killed on sight for big bucks, and I think it tarnishes their name. I see it the other way too when someone has improved the birds, but I'd bet the majority of the time its the other way around. Anyway that's enough about that.

Your comments about dealing with Gary and all the willingness to help and give advice to newbies to the breed I see from Red guys is always so awesome to see. It's just jarring sometimes, because I have found that in a lot of breeds there's very few people who want to discuss how to improve your line, or talk nicely about others birds, or help a newcomer get started. It's a really cool subcommunity of poultry.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Hey Matt, Scott, Jeff and whoever else. I'm certainly not mad, angry nor upset with any of you and I know exactly what you all are saying. The only thing gets me is when we are talking to someone and mention the name of an old line (me for example) giving them credit for what they did many years ago, and someone says there is no such thing. Now I can show you what I'm talking about: " Hi folks..I need some suggestions as to who to contact that has the best and oldest mohawk/reese lines".. and this is the answer he got: " no such bird Dan,once another person has mated up the birds,the old line is gone," Now don't you think that that is a slap in the face to the old timers that worked so hard to produce these certain old lines. Maybe I'm just a little to sensitive. lol
Matt, I know exactly what you are saying and that is why I call my birds from Matt1616 the Matt's Reese birds. lol I want to give Matt all the credit that he deserves and anyone else like Ron Fogel or anyone else that has/is doing such a wonderful job at keeping these old lines going and starting so many others with them. Here's the other thing also that I was thinking. When anyone buys from Gary Underwood, he is always there to tell us how to mate them up even going by the toe punch which one to which if folks want his help. I would not call that not having anything to do with breeding them.
Maybe some folks don't know the difference in some of these lines.
Okay, this is all I'm saying about this subject because I don't want anyone getting upset with me. lol No, seriously I'm not upset with anyone and we can all feel the way we want. It just upsets me to think that all the old timers are just getting thrown to the curb with all the hard work that they had done. I for one will always be appreciative of their hard work.
Jim



We're good here too Jim and yes I agree too on your last line too. Yes they set the foundation but the folks using their names (same as the "H word") to move things along is way worse than them not getting recognition. Like Matt said too, most wouldn't want their name plastered all over some else's doings is all.
not POed either Jim LOL

Jeff

 

[SallyinIndiana]

So I have Fogle line birds as they came from Ron Fogle. That is all for my input on the line thing.

Now for my real question. What do I need to do this winter to keep frostbite away? So far my guys have great combs and wattles but I know from last year that SC roosters can get frostbite in my coop. At least my production roos did.

 

[catdaddyfro]

So I have Fogle line birds as they came from Ron Fogle. That is all for my input on the line thing.

Now for my real question. What do I need to do this winter to keep frostbite away? So far my guys have great combs and wattles but I know from last year that SC roosters can get frostbite in my coop. At least my production roos did.

Proper ventilation and no moisture is the key to preventing frostbite.

Jeff

 

[SallyinIndiana]

Quote:
No moisture as in keep the waterers outside of the coop? My venting is good in that coop, and draft free for the most part. we added windows this spring that let in a very small draft. The times I had trouble with the frostbite do match up to the times when the chickens just stayed in the coop due to cold cold weather. I did move the food and water inside on those days. I did not even think about it causing problems other than mice in the coop. I despise mice and constantly plan things to avoid them.

 

[catdaddyfro]

No moisture as in keep the waterers outside of the coop? My venting is good in that coop, and draft free for the most part. we added windows this spring that let in a very small draft. The times I had trouble with the frostbite do match up to the times when the chickens just stayed in the coop due to cold cold weather. I did move the food and water inside on those days. I did not even think about it causing problems other than mice in the coop. I despise mice and constantly plan things to avoid them.

No not necessarily unless they turn them over or are very sloppy at drinking (I have some that make a mess everyday "roosters waddles") LOL
No the moisture accumulates just as you stated when they are confined like such. Their droppings consist of high percentage of urine (every poop is a pee pee too) a very potent ammonia mixture. One has to try to keep all that as dry as possible along with fresh air too, hard to balance out and keep enough warmth to prevent freezing too. Actually the birds can take cold way colder than their water containers can so its best to have low temps and warm the water drinkers someway. I don't have the problem here in La. but any further north of here like Ark up will though. I 've had roosters combs freeze here but they were out exposed in the elements never had one freeze the tips here even in a leantoo type with windbreaks(walls) north and west the east and south are fully opened. I do cover the open slatted walls(w/viscuine) when temps are expected low for several days but not ever blocked air ways though. Very important; fresh air in stale air out is the biggest key factor.

Jeff

 

[bluebirdnanny]

To breed to the old RIR standard (weather using specimens with one line ancestry or another) what year of the "American Standard of Perfection" would you think best and why? Have the perfection standards for the RIR changed?

Also which is the most complete?

The local library has one on loan order for me... waiting for it to come in.

 

[ronott1]

I really enjoyed the discussion today about what to call lines when the move to another Breeder.

It made be think too.

 

[Fred's Hens]

The Standard changes very little and very, very slowly over time. Most often the changes involve clarification not so much change, from my point of view.

For example, I have a copy of the Plymouth Rock Standard from a full century ago with which I am most familiar. It is rather amazing how very little anything has changed. Hope that helps.