The Legbar Thread!

[normanack]

And for all you cross breeding haters, I didn't let them hatch it out to sell or to try to create a new breed to pass off on ebay.

Oh, c'mon. You could call them Scream Llamas or Serene Lamas and make a fortune.
;-)

 

[roncrna]

Oh, c'mon. You could call them Scream Llamas or Serene Lamas and make a fortune.
;-)

TOO Funny!

Just curious- can you tell gender on the crosses, too?

I couldn't. No chipmunk appearance or dot.

 

[Phage]

All the chicks from CL x exchequer leghorn and Brabanter hens had a dot on the head. Some dots were larger than others.
Both hens are mottled so not sure it that helps with sex determnation at hatch.

 

[RyeRanch]

About what age do the crests on the cream Legbars start coming in?

Also, any opinions on those birds that do not develop a crest? Is it way out of the standard for the breed or it it a trait that can be bred back into the offspring by crossing with a well crested bird?

 

[blackbirds13]

About what age do the crests on the cream Legbars start coming in?
Also, any opinions on those birds that do not develop a crest? Is it way out of the standard for the breed or it it a trait that can be bred back into the offspring by crossing with a well crested bird?

I've generally been able to tell within a week or two of hatch I think, but definitely with a matter of weeks I would say . I had a male hatch recently and his crest was showing within a week I would say.

My older female has a nice crest that has suffered from all the mounting of my rooster as it's barely visible now. My male has no real visible crest only a some spikey feathers behind the comb but I would say the majority of my chicks have crests. A crest is part of the UK SOP though the term is fading in use from what I have read and been told.

Whether a darker head or lighter head means a crest or size of a crest I am not sure as I really was not taking proper notes like I should have. If anyone has been making notes on crests hopefully they will offer up some advice on this. It can be bred back into your offspring I would think as I would surmise that most of the birds have the gene for it, even if it is recessive in the individual bird. It's easier to get roosters now but females are still harder to come by so if you have a pair why not test breed to see what you get? I have not decided what I will do with any non crested females I hatch.

 

[GaryDean26]

Studies have proved that some birds that are homozygous for the cresting gene [Cr/Cr] can result in very small crest or even appear non-crested.

Studies have also confirmed that some birds that are Heterozygous for cresting [Cr/cr] can have very large crest.

This is telling me that there is a lot a variation in the degree of cresting. I assume that other genes increase or inhibit the cresting size (or something like that). I am going to try to cross some of these "non-crested" pullets (which I think DO have the correct cresting genes [Cr/Cr]) with a heavily crested cockerel and see what type of results I get. If this balances out the twisted combs on the male off-spring and non-cresting on the female off-springs, then in the future I may be able to save twisted combs roos or non-crested pullets if they are superior to the rest of the flock in body type, vigor, production, egg color, etc. Still if all else was equal, I would remove the non-crested pullets from the breeding plan. If my test cross don't produce any balancing in the off-spring (I am sure this will come up again in a year when we have results from such selections in the Legbar community), then the non-crested birds would obviously have to be culled even if they were superior in every other way.

So...I would say give it a try. I am going to. We are all pioneers at establishing this breed in the USA, so we will have to answer some of our own questions through our own breeding. Experience will give you more knowledge than any book will ever provide.

 

[blackbirds13]

Studies have proved that some birds that are homozygous for the cresting gene [Cr/Cr] can result in very small crest or even appear non-crested.

Studies have also confirmed that some birds that are Heterozygous for cresting [Cr/cr] can have very large crest.

This is telling me that there is a lot a variation in the degree of cresting. I assume that other genes increase or inhibit the cresting size (or something like that). I am going to try to cross some of these "non-crested" pullets (which I think DO have the correct cresting genes [Cr/Cr]) with a heavily crested cockerel and see what type of results I get. If this balances out the twisted combs on the male off-spring and non-cresting on the female off-springs, then in the future I may be able to save twisted combs roos or non-crested pullets if they are superior to the rest of the flock in body type, vigor, production, egg color, etc. Still if all else was equal, I would remove the non-crested pullets from the breeding plan. If my test cross don't produce any balancing in the off-spring (I am sure this will come up again in a year when we have results from such selections in the Legbar community), then the non-crested birds would obviously have to be culled even if they were superior in every other way.

So...I would say give it a try. I am going to. We are all pioneers at establishing this breed in the USA, so we will have to answer some of our own questions through our own breeding. Experience will give you more knowledge than any book will ever provide.

Thanks GaryDean26 - I did post this in an earlier post with a bunch of other genetic stuff - Have you noticed any correlation between hatch coloring and crests? As to size or actual appearance of one? i too am trying to get the same comb-crest balance but also aware of color, type and the like. It will definitely be interesting to compare notes and experiences in the years ahead.... pioneers....I like that.

RyeRanch Post # 1504 has all that genetic information if you want to take a look.

 

[blackbirds13]

Just hatched today and looks to be a crested female

 

[cjwaldon]

Blackbirds, I have noticed that my darkest (almost black) & most prominently chipmunk striped females, the ones with a lighter spot area on the head (not an actual spot, but just a hint of one) are showing their crests at a younger age than the brown & lighter colored females which also lack the hint of a spot a spot on the head. Their crests are coming in at various ages and showing various degrees of prominence so I cannot say for sure if some will not have crests are perhaps will show their crests as they get older. I have not raised enough chicks yet to ascertain if this correlation is within the scope of coincidence or truely a distinguishing feature to use in selecting day old chicks. I have not been able to make a correlation between down color and crest development on the males. I would like to hear others' observations on down color to crest development.

 

[GaryDean26]

I have also failed to see any correlation between cresting and down color. Both down colors are about a 50% split in my limited sample pool.

I think it is safe to say they are not linked genes.

Punnet's paper on the Recessive Black gene talks about the inheritance of the cresting gene in the cream legbars. He crossed cream legbars with recessive black hybrids to see if the cream color gene had any effect on the down color or adult plumage. In that study he kept records on the cresting inheritance between the crossings. Punnet didn't note any linkage between cresting and down color.

The recessive black paper would be a good read for anyone intrested in little bit of recreational poultry genetics. I think you know where to find the achieved Punnet publications. If not let me know. I will send you the link.