The Legbar Thread!

[redchicken9]

GaryDean26,
Everyone always has different ideas. It's giving voice and then sorting this down to what people want. Sure some people will become active decision-makers, maybe a Cream Legbar Working Group (CLWG) (see what people are willing to do and accomplish before giving out titles). I know this should move to another page, but hang in here with me. I'd like for people to voice what they see happening. A step down outline of issues, goals, or objectives could be made.
(example)
1. Breed Standards
1.1 Adapt UK standards
1.1.1 Adapt UK standards fully, move forward with APA recognition
1.1.2. Adapt UK standards provisionally, set measurement for future "vote"
1.2 Modify UK standards
1.2.1 Modify UK standards to include plumage types light, dark, white (I'm winging it here)
1.2.2 Modify UK standards to exclude olive green eggs (still winging it)

and onward

Under each bullet a short outline discussion. Breeds Standards are x, y, they are meant to be used by poultry fanciers. Example of champion British CL pullet, cockerel, etc exhibits A,B,C, etc.

When it's all packaged up, we have or seek informative comments ideally from within and outside of the US.

Comment: Breed standards in the UK are dismal in regard to salmon color.
Response: The USA Cream Legbar club has determined to define salmon color as blah.

Comment: Given the current status of uncertainty for a fledgling club to begin a registry, many reviewers indicated a disinclination towards this program (and/or comment of opposite opinion).
Response: The Cream Legbar Working Group (CLWG) proposes limiting entry per member as registry is began to alleviate initial stress and work on fine-tuning this option. CLWG has determined registry as too expensive and unwieldy at this time. (responses after research is done).

What I'm suggesting is scope and collect the extent of what a club needs, wants, or should be. Package it, send out for comment. At some point elect a working group from those who participate. Make decisions and conclude. Then the starting place is everyone's club. A lot of the work is in the voice of this forum. I don't know who will do what, but I sure like to see. I'm happy to participate and vote.

Thanks all for reading. I have other obligations now, but if some starts a separate page, I'll go there. If not, I'll attempt to do so, by end of tomorrow.

 

[GaryDean26]

GaryDean26, Love ya and all, but is body color right?

Quote:
The Marraduna Basque Cockerels should have Yellow Striped Bloomers.
http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/9/9...kal_oiloa_MARRADUNA_barietateko_OILARRA2.jpeg

The Cream Legbar Cockerels should have Black Striped Bloomer.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/kimera1/legbars024.jpg

 

[redchicken9]

The way I said that may have been confussing. I don't mean the lower unfeathered part of the leg, but the upper feathered part where the drum sticks come from.

The Marraduna Basque have the [Co/Co] columbian gene that extends red color in the primary pattern and restrics black color. This is similar to the Black-Tailed Buff color (but with out the Db gene of the BTB and the addition of B for barring). The Cream Legbar doesn't have the [Co/Co] columbian gene and so with out the barring gene would look similar to a Black Brested Red.

Clear as mud?

Yes, got it. Thanks for adding me into the explanation twice. Legs = bloomers in your first description.

 

[Laingcroft]

I haven't had any trouble distinguishing my Basque cockerels from my Cream Legbar cockerels. Others can add to this list but the easy give aways are the following:

1) Down color: The Basque are yellow with out stripes or white dots on the head. The cream legbar cockerel is a grayish color with smudged stripes and a dot on the head

2) body color: The Basque have yellow legs and breast while the Cream Legbar have black legs and breast.

3) Crest: Cream Legbars cockerels have visible crest (even if they are small). The Basque are non crested.

4) Ear Lobes: Cream Legbars have White lobes, Basque have red lobes.

5) Body type - I am not going to even attempt to explain this, but one is a dual purpose bird and on a laying breed.

Yes... There are some birds from each breed that won't meet the standards (i.e. a Cream Legbar with out a crest, or a Basque with a little white on the lobes), but I don't see this being a big problem. Should any accidental crosses happen it will be fairly obvious when you get yellow crested pullets that lay olive colored eggs.

Hmmm??? Maybe I am over estimating that people will know that a yellow crested pullets that lays olive eggs isn't a pure cream legbar.

At any rate, if people can't keep their breeds separate, then what good is a Cream Legbar Registry? If they can't keep the Basque separate from the Cream Legbar how are they going to keep the cockerel from the Hen laying 180+ Large C17 color eggs a year separate from the Cream Legbar cockerel from the hen that lays 225+ Medium A7 eggs a year. just saying.

I would have to disagree with the crest thing on the Legbars. My guys are from Greenfire's uncrested line. While I prefer the look of the crested chickens, what I've found is that the uncrested line is fantastic on egg production. The pullets started laying late in June (their hatch date was March 18) and are still giving me the occasional egg even now. I am now adding eggs from GA (Pampered Poultry) for a second bloodline and hope to produce a third by combining these two for crested hens without loosing the egg production my uncrested girls have given me.

Also, the UK standard, at least what I've found online, does not mention crests for the hens. Perhaps across the pond, the uncrested is preferred.

I find that there is more smuttiness or black in the EO breast feathers but I think that is the Pendesenca influence in the "original" stock from Rivard along with white legs, mottling and all (recessive) white.

The way I remind myself of what I should be looking for is to think of the EO as a barred New Hampshire and the Legbar as a true crele.

 

[debs_flock]

What breed leays a nice sized white egg that would be a good addition to a flock?

I just love my campine. They lay a large to x-large white/very lightly tinted egg, nearly every day. They mature early, able to sex at a very young age, confine well, but excellent free rangers. They are smart and adept at avoiding predation. And they are beautiful to watch as they move about your yard.

Deb

 

[blackbirds13]

Hi everybody,
I am interested in autosexing breeds because I raise Norwegian Jaerhons, an autosexing breed from Norway, so I read this forum sometimes. I found the UK SOP for the Cream Legbar and thought it might help with your discussion of the recent imports. The Legbar fanciers in the US will have to decide if they want to breed true to the country of origin or if they want to change the standard as they develop the breed here. Good Luck and I hope you don't mind me peeping in here from time to time.


Cream Legbar Standard of Perfection UK
Cream Legbars were developed in the 1930's in Cambridge by crossing Brown Leghorns, Barred Plymouth Rocks and Araucana (for the egg colour).
Cream Legbars are a pure breed of poultry, they are autosexing which means you can tell the sex of the chick at day old. They are a rare breed and are covered by the Rare Poultry Society.
They were originally called Crested Cream Legbars but this was later change to Cream Legbar.
They lay 180+ eggs per year, this is probably due to their leghorn ancestry.
The breed standard is as follows:
Origin: British

Classification: Light

Egg Colour: Blue, Green or Olive

General Characteristics:

Male

Carriage : Very sprightly and alert, with no suggestion of stiltiness.

Type: Body wedge shaped, wide at the shoulders and narrowing slightly to root of tail. Back long, flat and sloping slightly to the tail. Breast prominent, and breast bone straight. Wings large, carried tightly and well tucked up. Tail moderately full at an angle of 45 degrees from the line of the back.

Head: Fine. Beak stout, point clear of the front of the comb. Eyes prominent. Comb single, perfectly straight and erect, large but not overgrown, deeply and evenly serrated (5 to 7 spikes broad at the base), extending well beyond back of the head and following, without touching, the line of the head, free from ‘thumb marks’ or side spikes. Face smooth. Ear-lobes well developed, pendent, smooth and free from folds, equally matched in size and shape. Wattles long and thin.

Neck: Long and profusely covered with feathers.

Legs and Feet: Legs moderately long. Shanks strong, round and free of feathers. Flat shins objectionable. Toes, four, long, straight and well spread.

Plumage: Of silky texture, free from coarse or excessive feather.

Handling: Firm with abundance of muscle.

Female

The general characteristics are similar to those of the male, allowing for the natural sexual differences, except that the comb may be erect or falling gracefully over either side of the face without obstructing the eyesight, and the tail should be carried closely and not at such a high angle.

Male: Neck hackles cream, sparsely barred. Saddle hackles cream, barred with dark grey, tipped with cream. Back and shoulders cream with dark grey barring, some chestnut permissible. Wings, primaries dark grey, faintly barred, some white permissible; secondaries dark grey more clearly marked; coverts grey barred, tips cream, some chestnut smudges permissible. Breast evenly barred dark grey, well defined outline. Tail evenly barred grey, sickles being paler, some whit feather permissible. Crest cream and grey, some chestnut permissible.

Female: Neck hackles cream, softly barred grey. Breast salmon, well defined in outline. Body silver grey, with rather indistinct broad soft barring. Wings, primaries grey-peppered; secondaries very faintly barred; coverts silver grey. Tail silver grey, faintly barred. Crest cream and grey, some chestnut permissible.

In both sexes: Beak yellow. Eyes orange or red. Comb, face, and wattles red. Ear-lobes pure opaque, white or cream, slight pink markings not unduly to handicap an otherwise good male. Legs and feet yellow.

Weights
Male 2.70-3.40kg (6-7lb)
Female 2-2.70kg (4-6lb)

Serious defects:
Male's comb twisted or falling over, Ear-lobes wholly red. Any white in face. Legs other than orange, yellow or light willow. Squirrel tail.

Disqualifications:
Side sprigs on comb. Eye pupil other than round and clearly defined. Crooked breast. Wry tail. Any bodily deformity.

Scale of points:
Type 30
Colour 20
Head 20
Legs 10
Condition 10
Weight 10
100

Laingcroft - This is from post 1754 - the females are to be crested per the UK SOP. My initial male had a barely there crest and he threw some nice crested females and males with my female who has a small crest.

 

[Laingcroft]

I'll have to print that one out and add it to my book of standards.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

I just LOVE the discussion about standardizing the CLB here in the US. I would love to be involved, I can't devote unlimited time but would be willing to do SOMETHING if needed.

On another note - I have been asked to lend either one or both of my older hens by someone who lost theirs so they can hatch ome chicks over winter. I am not comfortable with this idea and was curious if anyone had done this and how it went. As of right now I think I'm going to say no but was curious what other's opinions on this were. He has offered to lend me his rooster so that I can hatch the eggs but I am done with CLB hatches until next spring. I am also concened about the Bio-security consequences among other things. Any advise anyone. Is this a normal practice? thanks.

Wow I don't know if I would do that... the way I was raised is only lend something you would be willing to GIVE because it may not come back to you and there shouldn't be hard feelings if it doesn't. Personally I might do it with a lesser breed but something that is rarer and harder to come by like CLB... I probably wouldn't.

 

[puglady]

I am daunted by all of that for sure - yet I am not sure about the small committees at this juncture. Maybe we could start the thread and anyone who is interested in going forward could list their interest in being an officer or on a specific committee. I like the idea of a more open discussion at the onset for a limited period of time - say about 30 or 60 days or 90 day or until the start of the new year? We could have an open forum discussion for officers and the different committees so we would have an idea of who really would be suited for what and who is really interested and have an idea of the time committments. I am sure many would like to partake in a variety of responsibilities. Some areas should be relatively easy to accomodate as the work on them has been done in the UK - like the history - It would just be a matter of aquiring the information and it's relevent sources. Some like the standards will really need a more open forum for input and the like. So....whose gonna get the ball rolling...any thread name proposals?

On another note - I have been asked to lend either one or both of my older hens by someone who lost theirs so they can hatch ome chicks over winter. I am not comfortable with this idea and was curious if anyone had done this and how it went. As of right now I think I'm going to say no but was curious what other's opinions on this were. He has offered to lend me his rooster so that I can hatch the eggs but I am done with CLB hatches until next spring. I am also concened about the Bio-security consequences among other things. Any advise anyone. Is this a normal practice? thanks.

I vote no to lending, and we could walk to each others house to lend, lol. Bio-security needs to be a top concern with the wonderful breeds you have. We can hopefully trade some LB eggs next spring. On a different note, the FBCMs have hatched. PM or email me to schedule a time to come over and try feather sexing a couple of males, gratas for you so come get 'em!

 

[ChicKat]

GaryDean26,
Everyone always has different ideas. It's giving voice and then sorting this down to what people want. Sure some people will become active decision-makers, maybe a Cream Legbar Working Group (CLWG) (see what people are willing to do and accomplish before giving out titles). I know this should move to another page, but hang in here with me. I'd like for people to voice what they see happening. A step down outline of issues, goals, or objectives could be made.
(example)
1. Breed Standards
1.1 Adapt UK standards
1.1.1 Adapt UK standards fully, move forward with APA recognition
1.1.2. Adapt UK standards provisionally, set measurement for future "vote"
1.2 Modify UK standards
1.2.1 Modify UK standards to include plumage types light, dark, white (I'm winging it here)
1.2.2 Modify UK standards to exclude olive green eggs (still winging it)

and onward

Under each bullet a short outline discussion. Breeds Standards are x, y, they are meant to be used by poultry fanciers. Example of champion British CL pullet, cockerel, etc exhibits A,B,C, etc.

When it's all packaged up, we have or seek informative comments ideally from within and outside of the US.

Comment: Breed standards in the UK are dismal in regard to salmon color.
Response: The USA Cream Legbar club has determined to define salmon color as blah.

Comment: Given the current status of uncertainty for a fledgling club to begin a registry, many reviewers indicated a disinclination towards this program (and/or comment of opposite opinion).
Response: The Cream Legbar Working Group (CLWG) proposes limiting entry per member as registry is began to alleviate initial stress and work on fine-tuning this option. CLWG has determined registry as too expensive and unwieldy at this time. (responses after research is done).

What I'm suggesting is scope and collect the extent of what a club needs, wants, or should be. Package it, send out for comment. At some point elect a working group from those who participate. Make decisions and conclude. Then the starting place is everyone's club. A lot of the work is in the voice of this forum. I don't know who will do what, but I sure like to see. I'm happy to participate and vote.

Thanks all for reading. I have other obligations now, but if some starts a separate page, I'll go there. If not, I'll attempt to do so, by end of tomorrow.

Hi redchicken9---

This and your other post are very insightful. It makes really good sense to me to follow this as a pros and cons approach. I appreciate your willingness to sort through and summarize a discussion.

I think that we can certainly do this in 30-days. -- JMO
Modeling after the UK SOP - I think your approach to this is excellent.

When you start the new thread....jump back here---and let the people who are interested in the discussion know what you call it. Good work. I'm giving you an ovation. :O)