The Legbar Thread!

[nicalandia]

Wow...it took a lot of work to get to the bottom of this one. Nice work!

I know this isn't a Jearhon Thread or Genetics Thread, but out of clarification, the Dark Jearhon variety has the B2 barring of white Leghorns and and the Light Jearhon has the B1 barring of the found in Plymouth Rocks?

Likewise the barring producing the light cockerels is the B1 barring and the barring producing the bark cockerels the B2 barring?

this is correct. keep in mind that in the last century cream legbars or legbars were bred to production white leghorn to encrease productivity. so the B2 barring gene is also present on some cream legbar lines, at least the most productive lines which are bred for egg laying

 

[lonnyandrinda]

No. the dark barring gene will prevent the breast barring to be grey(will be dark) and the saddle and hackles will be richer than the soft cream is desired, But the Light barring gene is present on the USA line(dark males vs light males) this alone is good news, because the light barring gene will turn the black barring into grey barring and the rich colored hackles into light colored hackles

So follow up question: several of us are hatching both light and dark down cockerels from the same parents. I assume then it is possible for a bird to carry both barring genes then? The tricky thing is it is much more apparent in the baby cockerels than in the baby pullets. If we continue to select for the lightest down in both cockerels and pullets, is that the best way to eliminate the incorrect barring gene? I guess my real question is do we know the dominance level of these two genes from their use in other breeds?

 

[Habibs Hens]

Silver Fox,

Find out what you can on your side about the work of David Applegarth on the Cream Legbar. He is responsible for the recovery/recreation of the Cream Legbar. David Francis was involved with this recovery/recreation too. I was told that Francis had notes on the original creation that he would take to Applegarth and they would work out breeding plans from that. The Cream Legbar Working Group's Breed History Committee tried to contact David Applegarth last December and learned from a breeder that was close friends with him that he is in declined health. A second breeder in the UK was able to contact him and he told her that after his work with the Cream Legbars he was move involved in the commercial Hybrids than the pure cream Legbars. We left some of our questions with that breeders to follow-up on details on the restoration/recreations but Applegarth's health hasn't allowed for use to get any information back from him. About all I know for sure is that in the 1980's the breed was all but extinct until David Applegarth work. If you run into anyone who knew.knows David Francis or David Applegarth find out what they know. My speculation would be that there was some poor Legbar blood that they rescued and out-crossed to other breeds to save the Cream Legbar. Others have speculated that they started over from scratch. I haven't found anyone that knows the fact on this though. Would be nice if someone knew more.


P.S. Oh...and by the way...the historical discriptions and color imaged of chick down from Michael Pease decribe and show Silver and Cream Legbar pullets with a head patch as listed in the written Breed Standards. The Gold Legbars however were decribed and shown in color plates without a head patcht. Michael Pease futher suggesed in a publication on Sex-links that the Sex-link barring only be used on Black Down. He said that on brown down the head patch might be to faith to see, and that on gold down it might not be visible at all.

I wont find all the answers in a day

but what I have found and Read so far is this

David Applegarth saved the Cream Legbar from extinction (they where not extinct) working with stock linked back directly to the Cambridge University programme of autosexing breeds of the 1930s.

so what David Applegarth has and bred are the same as what punnet had and bred

as I get more info I will let ya know

Gonna find time to go a visit David maybe convince him to gimme a few birds

 

[nicalandia]

After looking into this a little more the answer was hitting me in the face


The Silver is extinct but can be recreated by crossing a GOLD Legabr with a Silver Duckwing Leghorn and selecting the Best Silvers'

Not something happening to soon as GOLD is extremely RARE in UK

gold is found on "Cream" legbar... so crossing a cream legbar with silver duckwing leghorn will infact get you closer to the "Silver Legbar".

Silver Legbar lack creast and their basice coloration would resemble the Silver Crele leghorn right?

The Cream Legbar is a GOLD Legbar Crossed with a Cream Araucana which then gave it its Blue/Green Egg and Crest

According to punnett he use Chilean(from chile) native stock, not Araucana.there are still native chilean/Easter island stock that lay blue eggs yet they are not "Araucana" or Ameraucana




source
http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/48/327.pdf

unfortunately due inpropper breading practices the Legbars have Lost Autosexing Qualities and that is what is being re refined

so the girls with headspots and boys with stripes is becoming all to common

while I agree that sexing should be improved , I just dont agree that the autosexing qualities have been lost. Heck even recessive white chicks(mostly all white) can be sexed at hatch. just takes some practice

can you sex the following recessive white cream legbar chicks?



let me know if you need help. these chicks can be sexed

Even with that said the boys with the stripe will grow to be a good quality Cream Legbar cock but the lack of or good quality differentiation in autosexing means they are no good

Not really, as of today I have yet to see a cream legbar chick I could not tell apart from girls, even if it takes some effort(I agree it should be easier) if this males have good type and good color they ara a keeper

 

[nicalandia]

So follow up question: several of us are hatching both light and dark down cockerels from the same parents. I assume then it is possible for a bird to carry both barring genes then? The tricky thing is it is much more apparent in the baby cockerels than in the baby pullets. If we continue to select for the lightest down in both cockerels and pullets, is that the best way to eliminate the incorrect barring gene? I guess my real question is do we know the dominance level of these two genes from their use in other breeds?

Correct. the males is carrying two copies of mutant B genes. B1/B2 or B/B2. now selecting for light cockerels and normal colored pullets(as chicks) would eliminate the incorrect barring gene.

 

[GaryDean26]

this is correct. keep in mind that in the last century cream legbars or legbars were bred to production white leghorn to encrease productivity. so the B2 barring gene is also present on some cream legbar lines, at least the most productive lines which are bred for egg laying

Yes...that fact is very much in mind.

I know that "white" breeds such as the white leghorn use the barring gene, along with other dilutor genes like the blue gene [bl+] and the recessive white [C+] to elimitate leakage which would be present if the bird had dominant white [i+] alone.

 

[nicalandia]

Yes...that fact is very much in mind.

I know that "white" breeds such as the white leghorn use the barring gene, along with other dilutor genes like the blue gene [bl+] and the recessive white [C+] to elimitate leakage which would be present if the bird had dominant white [i+] alone.

correct.. but the barring found on them is different(genetically sequenced) tha the ones found on Barred rocks

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

I have a strange legbar chick that is bugging me! I have my original pair in their own pen so I know what eggs are hers. She has been with the same rooster since I got them last year and has never been able to come in contact with another rooster. We just hatched a couple dozen legbar chicks total, and out of her eggs there is a mystery chick. It is black with a white spot on the head, then the back has 2 white stripes like, and in the center it is blue-ish white. What the heck could cause this? I have hatched out the dark males before but they still show brown. I will try to post a pic soon.

 

[1muttsfan]

Yes please - Pictures!

 

[dretd]

Actually pictures of the chick and the parents!