The Legbar Thread!

[madamwlf]

Okay, I have a question. You've seen pics of my rooster. I think his tail sits too high. Is it possible to get a good rooster chick from him with a good tail? Or should I look for another rooster?

 

[KPenley]

Okay, I have a question. You've seen pics of my rooster. I think his tail sits too high. Is it possible to get a good rooster chick from him with a good tail? Or should I look for another rooster?

Of course you can use him! Just breed him to hens who carry their tails low and you're good to go

 

[KPenley]

LOL Kathy. Ok here are my 2 CL roos that are in line for a breeding pen. Kestlyn had warned me (back on Aug 2) that #3's larger crest could push his comb to one side (not good) and she was dead on the money. lol Also he shows more barring on his neck (right?) so that may be an indicator of a single dose of the barring gene (also not good for cream??)... Do I have that right? (breeding him with I think #2 doesn't show as much barring as #3, and has a straight comb. They are both 5 month old. (4-11-2013) Does #2 look like he may be double barred, or just less barred than #3? I have an older rooster that KP believes is dbl barred, but he has a couple of his own issues. Carries his tail pretty high. So what do y'all think about these 2? I was telling Kathy, I finally hatched a boy (8-16), and I can't wait to see how he feathers in. He's from the other rooster (not pictured). Looking forward to hearing back from y'all.

Sorry to be responding so late! You have some beautiful boys! I like the dilution of barring I'm seeing in the hackles of number 2, but number 3 is coming in much better than I anticipated! Don't overworry doses of barring right now. If I focus on everything I need to fix in my birds it gets kind of overwhelming...so I have to pick one thing at a time. Overall, in the evenness of color department (not a huge difference between the neck, hackles and saddle), your number 1 roo is still the best. But these boys have some amazing tail angles, as Kathy and others have pointed out, and some great other features as well. Is your baby boy from #1 the lighter girl's offspring? I hope he grows up into a creamier version of his dad with tails like #2 and #3 Best wishes!

 

[horsedirt]

Smack me. I deserve it. It appears the Bienfelder chicken s are quite similar to CLs? I was on Greenfire Farms website and they are an auto sexing breed, similar in color but lay brown eggs Are they just a bit off on the DNA ladder?

 

[horsedirt]

Bielefelder. Oops.

 

[HaplessRunner]

Smack me. I deserve it. It appears the Bienfelder chicken s are quite similar to CLs? I was on Greenfire Farms website and they are an auto sexing breed, similar in color but lay brown eggs Are they just a bit off on the DNA ladder?

Yes, but, they were developed completely independently and the Bielefelder is almost twice the size of cream legbars.

 

[DCchicken]

I have 7 Bielefelders growing in a brooder right next to my CLs. What a difference in growth rate. At first I was worried that I would confuse them as they look very familiar as 1 day old chicks. But then the Bielefelders starting growing at a rapid rate. And they can eat. One of the boys got stuck in the food dish when he was little. Either he grew too fast or ate until he was trapped. At this rate, I am going to have to buy feed by the pallet.

The two breeds are night and day. My CLs (all from GFF's 2013 line) keep their growth slow and steady. I am working on trying to make the CLs the perfect urban chicken: autosexing (roosters are considered chicken non grata in my area), sky-blue eggs (popular with the hipsters), and medium size. Now if I can just get them to stay in their brooder pen.

 

[CibolaChooks]

So sad to loose chicks.

There are certain flock management rules that everyone has...and like everything, people won't ever have 100% agreement. Sounds like Ms. Hen was having a tough go of it there with that hatch..... I'm always ready to dish out advice to people of how I would do it and what works for me...or what Gail Damerow says......LOL.....

Sometimes people have to pre-determine the actions that they will take. There is a very experienced breeder on the BYC forum who raises RIRs and I think also a poultry judge...and their medicine chest for chickens is a hatchet. -- Then others will medicate their chickens...soooo it's a real 'to each his own' -- And I really DO respect anyone's individual approach to their own flock management. I do have to say that NYREDS has particularly healthy chickens with the approach that they take...so..it is one approach that works.

Sometimes I think chickens have so many chicks so easily (seemingly an easy to reproduce livestock) because there are so many other organisms AFTER chickens - from virus to huge predator.....

So, totally off topic, but this link is a Mareks Disease Fact page - and NYREDS comment is at the bottom.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

I was just talking about a mom assisting the chick in hatching lol. But this was very interesting . Poozes said mereks was omnipresent, do all flocks eventually get mereks no matter what or how clean you keep the pens. no matter how healthy they seem they just carry it. Basically are all seemingly healthy flocks just a bunch of birds with Resistance. And this makes me kinda scared to buy any more birds from other people. what about the mention of MD threw the mom into the egg if you buy hatching eggs from someone. Kinda seems like theirs no hope from never getting it.

Edit. one of those links says its in every flock and every flock in the world is presumed to be affected

how can that be. Lymphoid Leukosis is said to be in every flock too.

 

[ChicKat]

I was just talking about a mom assisting the chick in hatching lol. But this was very interesting . Poozes said mereks was omnipresent, do all flocks eventually get mereks no matter what or how clean you keep the pens. no matter how healthy they seem they just carry it. Basically are all seemingly healthy flocks just a bunch of birds with Resistance. And this makes me kinda scared to buy any more birds from other people. what about the mention of MD threw the mom into the egg if you buy hatching eggs from someone. Kinda seems like theirs no hope from never getting it.

Edit. one of those links says its in every flock and every flock in the world is presumed to be affected

how can that be. Lymphoid Leukosis is said to be in every flock too.

I think that your comment about "seemingly healthy flocks just a bunch of birds with Resistance" -- is the key.

Some Poultry specialist or Vet stated that there are two kind of flocks - "those that have had Marek's and those that will get Marek's".

As much as Marek's is a heart breaker, birds CAN have Resistance (otherwise there would be no chickens left on earth) --- Seems from research that Leghorn related breeds have the greatest resistance..something to do with the (if memory serves) B21 gene. The most susceptible are RIR - and related (Black sex-link of mine got Marek's) - There is also a time window when most susceptible and females more than males. Stress is a factor too. -- So it is possible to breed resistant birds.

Note that the Marek's vaccine in the USA is different from the one in the UK, thus upon first arrival to USA our breed was very vulnerable because there was no exposure or resistance to the USA Marek's. Australia got themselves in big trouble by using both USA and UK varieties of vaccine and thus a vaccine resistant Marek's was going on over there.... drug resistance - very dangerous territory in our fix-it-quick-with-a-medication world. From my research I am almost thinking that it is better to go for resistance than any other approach to healthy chickens.

Even humans are filled with disease, and our immune system is constantly 'fighting off' invasions. Did I hear a study some place that said EVERYONE has some cancer floating around inside them and our immune systems squelch it before it can grow.



Make sure pullets have as little stress as possible when they approach POL - Marek's often strikes pullets at 16 or 17 weeks. And although the rule of thumb for good advice is 4-weeks of quarantine for new chickens, Marek's incubation period can be up to 12-weeks. If anyone reading this has any insights or comments or studies or articles about Marek's - I have an open page for reference where anyone can post specific, scientific Marek's information - asking that it is cited - so no one puts promises of silver bullets there or magic cures to falsely raise people's hopes. Thanks!
https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/mareks-disease-fact-site

EGG TRANSMISSION - There isn't 'vertical transmission' of Marek's Disease to my knowledge, however, somehow resistant mom will be more likely to pass resistance on to her chicks as I understand it .... so a resistant hen is a very good thing.

 

[dretd]

EGG TRANSMISSION - There isn't 'vertical transmission' of Marek's Disease to my knowledge, however, somehow resistant mom will be more likely to pass resistance on to her chicks as I understand it .... so a resistant hen is a very good thing.

You beat me to the reply.

Marek's is a worldwide disease but not every flock has Marek's. It really depends on your unique environment and management practices. So far I personally have not had Marek's in my flock (knock wood), although I am well aware of the risks and I know that it could surface. Recently I was talking with a vet friend and neither of us vaccinate but were debating this very thing. Remember that it is spread through dander from the feathers and skin so that it can be wind-blown onto your property or easily carried on your cloths or shoes, or infect a chicken you bring to a show or poultry swap even if the chicken doesn't have direct contact with any other chickens. So I recommend maintaining strict bio-security if you so not otherwise have Marek's in your flock. If you intend to show, or have flocks upwind it would probably be smart to vaccinate.

Its all about minimizing risk. Your risk is higher under certain circumstances and lower in others.
-If you are in a high flock density area, and especially of you are down wind from other flocks your risk is higher.
-If you go to poultry swaps your risk is higher.
-if you buy chicks or chickens from outside sources (even with quarantine) your risk is higher.

Maintain strict bio-security and a closed flock if you want to minimize your risk. This means:
-never bring outside birds onto your premises (with the exception of day olds purchased from a hatchery that practices good biosecurity measures. Remember it does not transmit through the egg but workers that own their own flocks can track in the disease into the hatchery and conditions where the hatchery does not sanitize the hatching area and eggs are potential sources for virus transmission. Know the biosecurity measures of the hatchery before you import live chicks.)
-If you visit a show, poultry swap, or farm, strip off your cloths and wash them, take a shower and most importantly clean and sanitize your footwear before you even think about checking on your flock.
-Buy hatching eggs and hatch your own eggs, at the very least wiping off your eggs to remove any dander or (controversially) sanitizing the eggs prior to setting.
-Do not bring any chickens back home after taking them off your farm. This one is the hardest. If you show, what to do with the ones you took to the show? You can quarantine them well away from your regular flock but there is a risk they have contracted the virus and become a carrier of the disease although they do not show outward signs of the disease. A Marek's version of Typhoid Mary, if you will.

ChicKat, the link in the Marek's Disease fact site for the First State Vet site is off. I could not find info to the article referenced although it is available on another thread on BYC: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/343173/can-you-vaccinate-5-week-old-chicks-for-mereks . This reference contains some good information and some information that is not quite right. For instance, it states that "Mareks vaccine is unique in that it does not stop a bird from becoming infected with the virus,but it stops the formation of the Tumors that are caused by the Mareks virus." This is a bit of a mischaracterization. Vaccines work by giving an animal a dose of a modified/killed/similar virus where the vaccine itself does no significant harm to the animal, but teaches the animals immune system what the bad-guy looks like so that when and if the animal encounters the bad guy in the future, the immune system remembers it and can quickly mount an immune response before the virus takes hold. The memory fades over time for many viruses which is why some vaccines require boosters down the road. In that regard, vaccines do not prevent infection, rather they prevent active disease. Semantics I guess but it needs to be clarified. He also has some information about Oxine and Anthrax that shows incomplete knowledge about sanitation procedures.