The Legbar Thread!

[GaryDean26]

I strongly suspect that the black chicks are crosses. How many hens do you have? I ask because there is a recessive black gene. If you have a cockerel and hen both carrying recessive black, then it you would get about 25% black chicks out of the pairing. They will come out looking like golden cuckoos. Check their leg color. If they are not yellow then it would support a not pure Legbar theory. Also as they develop watch the ear lobe color. If they get red lobes they aren't pure cream leg bars. Also watch the egg color when they start laying. If the eggs are greener than the eggs they hatched from, they also would indicate that they aren't pure. If they are pure Recessive black, then if bred back to a standard color Legbar they would bring back the standard color. I wouldn't breed them though since you don't really know what color they would be carrying under the black and could set you back in your breeding.

 

[Thespoiledchicken]

I strongly suspect that the black chicks are crosses. How many hens do you have? I ask because there is a recessive black gene. If you have a cockerel and hen both carrying recessive black, then it you would get about 25% black chicks out of the pairing. They will come out looking like golden cuckoos. Check their leg color. If they are not yellow then it would support a not pure Legbar theory. Also as they develop watch the ear lobe color. If they get red lobes they aren't pure cream leg bars. Also watch the egg color when they start laying. If the eggs are greener than the eggs they hatched from, they also would indicate that they aren't pure. If they are pure Recessive black, then if bred back to a standard color Legbar they would bring back the standard color. I wouldn't breed them though since you don't really know what color they would be carrying under the black and could set you back in your breeding.

OMG we may have Recessive Black genes too

Wow these birds never cease to amaze me lol.

Hmm ok so lets say it is recessive Black- what would you get if you bred recessive Black to recessive White

 

[soldier]

I appreciate all of your responses and assistance. This Legbar Thread is always very helpful.

I thought the black chicks were within the breed as I had seen folks in the past post pics of blacks but of course I may have been wrong they may have been mixes. I "did" have a barred colored easter egger and another hen in with the Legbars for a few days and then took them out so they may unfortunately be my "culprit"

I did have some thoughts on color. Since there is such variation on the coloration of the cocks I thought that was also reflected in the color of chicks. Even if you compare the chicks on the Greenfire Farm site Rees vs their older line. The color is like night and day.

I will check the leg color of the black chicks. The last two hatches I did not get black so I assume it was from the 2 hens I had in the flock for a few days.

Gary, Thanks for your info on the black gene. I have 8 Legbar hens and one rooster. Out of about 35 or so chicks that hatched I believe there were only 4 blacks. Does this black gene just show up phenotypically in males? How is it expressed in females? I have never had a white chick but read have seen pics of white. Is this also a recessive gene. How do you get white? I thought if my rooster was homozygous for cream then all of the chicks would carry a cream gene. I did have a few that look to be of the color of the new Rees chicks although I KNOW they are not of that line. So I assume my roos cream gene married up with a cream from one of the hens. Would this make these chicks homozygous for cream? What are your thoughts.

My plan for the blacks, reds, fluffies, fruitcakes and the non-conforming/un-conforming was to cull them. My plan is to keep the lighter colored "typey" looking chicks and grow them out. I am looking at just growing out a couple of the lightest/typiest roos hoping they are homozygous for cream. I also would LOVE to add a Rees roo/hens to the flock but the price tag is so high! How many chicks will Greenfire send at one time. Are they day olds when they ship them and do they give you a few days health guarantee? They are some lovely birds

Again THANKS for your help!

Excited in Sunny Kansas and just put another 40 or Legbar eggs in the bator. Will have to see if I get blacks since I no longer have non-comforming hens in with the flock.

 

[GaryDean26]

Hmm ok so lets say it is recessive Black- what would you get if you bred recessive Black to recessive White

You would get the standard Legbar Color. Now that would be an interesting pairing.

 

[GaryDean26]

...Does this black gene just show up phenotypically in males? How is it expressed in females?

[GD26] The Recessive Black Gene can show up in both male and female chicks. A breeder near me that works with Dorking has had some Recessive Black Dorking chicks pop out that she was breeding and working with as a side project. I have hear of it coming out of RIR lines too, but am guessing it is a long shot for it to be in the Legbar lines and am thinking the black chicks are more likely from the Cuckoo EE.

...I have never had a white chick but read have seen pics of white. Is this also a recessive gene. How do you get white? I thought if my rooster was homozygous for cream then all of the chicks would carry a cream gene. I did have a few that look to be of the color of the new Rees chicks although I KNOW they are not of that line. So I assume my roos cream gene married up with a cream from one of the hens. Would this make these chicks homozygous for cream? What are your thoughts.

[GD26] I have grown out 3-4 of the really light colored Legbar Chicks ALL of them turned out to be gold. Smyth's study of the cream gene concluded that the cream gene had not diluting on the down color of the chicks. Pease however indicated that the cream chicks had a cold color and the non-cream chicks a warmer color so there may be some difference in down color from the cream gene, but with the wide variation in down color that we see I defiantly can not identify double cream chicks from the down color.

...Excited in Sunny Kansas and just put another 40 or Legbar eggs in the bator. Will have to see if I get blacks since I no longer have non-comforming hens in with the flock.

[GD26] Let us know if you get any more blacks or not.

 

[Junibutt]

I started keeping chicken last year and decided to incubate some Legbar eggs I got from another BYC member. I did not much about the breed until I got the eggs. I did not even know that there is a Gold Legbar vs a Cream Legbar. The eggs were sold to me as Cream Legbar eggs though. I am posting pics for your opinion.

By the way 3 of them hatched 2 weeks ago. 2 pullets (thats what I think) and 1 cockerel. Comments are below the pics



First Born Hope


Hope again.


Hope not completely dried yet




Hope (right), Marco (left) & Faith (back)



Hope, Faith & Marco from top to bottom

Hope is 1 day old at this point.




Hope is 2 weeks old now and doesn't let me work on my laptop.
She weighs 100 g at the moment wheres Faith and Marco both are 90 g each.

BTW does someone maintain a growth chart for Legbar chicks to compare with standard growth rates?

 

[dheltzel]

Hi, Id like some input on buying a flock of legbars from a lady getting out of the business they are green fire line. I have no clue about these birds and if I would be at loss if presuing them.... are they a popular breed? I have no clue how much people sell eggs, chicks to adults for. she said she does well saleing them on ebay. and sells a day old chick for 20.00. that just sounds like alot to me. what is your thoughts? Thank you

I wouldn't recommend buying these with the intent of getting rich. Yes, they can sell for that much right now, but the people are buying them for that and expecting to get that next year for their chicks are likely to be very disappointed.

But if you like them and want to buy them for that reason, go ahead. You might be able to pay for the feed with what you sell, but the only way to even break even as a chicken "hobbyist" is to not count any of your labor as a cost. Since it's something I like to do anyway, I don't have a problem with that.

So, for fun, yes, buy them. As a business venture, not so much.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

@Junibutt cute chicks!

It's a work in progress here in the US with Cream Legbars. "Gold Legbar" is an actual different breed that looks similar, crestless, that lays a white egg. So what we have here in the US are Cream Legbars and improperly colored Cream Legbars, we don't really have a name for these gold colored birds. Cream is a recessive gene so both parents have to carry it in order for the chicks to be cream. The only way it can be "lost" is if there was an outcross at some point and the birds are no longer pure for the Cream gene. Once you get your flock back to cream it cannot be lost.

 

[DCchicken]

I wouldn't recommend buying these with the intent of getting rich. Yes, they can sell for that much right now, but the people are buying them for that and expecting to get that next year for their chicks are likely to be very disappointed.

But if you like them and want to buy them for that reason, go ahead. You might be able to pay for the feed with what you sell, but the only way to even break even as a chicken "hobbyist" is to not count any of your labor as a cost. Since it's something I like to do anyway, I don't have a problem with that.

So, for fun, yes, buy them. As a business venture, not so much.

Agreed. Even with extremely rare breeds like Ayam Cemani, it would be very hard to make money. You would need to build out pens for breeding, buy incubators, feeders, waterers, etc. And then you would need to brood and grow out lots of chicks. Not every one of those chicks is going to be good quality. So you will need to cull lots of chicks as well. And don't forget your own labor costs. There are going to be times when you want a weekend off. So you will need to hire someone to take care of the chickens while you are gone.

Very few in the industry can make it work as a business. Those that do invest large amounts of money to import rare chickens. The secondary breeders that purchase from the primary importer can usually make some money the first year they are released. But after that, the price seems to drop very quickly.

If you enjoy it and don't mind doing it as a hobby, then go for it. Otherwise just be honest with yourself about how much you want to invest in it to make it a profitable venture. I am still shocked at the costs.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

@Junibutt
cute chicks!

It's a work in progress here in the US with Cream Legbars.  "Gold Legbar" is an actual different breed that looks similar, crestless, that lays a white egg.  So what we have here in the US are Cream Legbars and improperly colored Cream Legbars, we don't really have a name for these gold colored birds.  Cream is a recessive gene so both parents have to carry it in order for the chicks to be cream.  The only way it can be "lost" is if there was an outcross at some point and the birds are no longer pure for the Cream gene.  Once you get your flock back to cream it cannot be lost.

Myself and a few others have been refering to the non-cream legbars as light brown legbar. Light brown being the base with legbar being the pattern since it isn't a true crele type.