The Legbar Thread!

[chicken fever]

my only ccl that pipped then died was a pullet! i'm so upset!

 

[GaryDean26]

I know it is possible to eliminate the head spots. Breeders in the UK that have correct colored CLBs (we think???) that are breeding true w/o head spots. I have only been seeing head spot on about 1:5 pullets and VERY faint at that.

I am still interested in the genetics of what causes the head spots though. The Silver chicks in Pease's 1954 book and his comments in the 1951 Auto-sexing Annual clearly show that although the Silver were created the same way as the gold that his Silver Birds were showing distinct head spots on the pullets and his Gold's weren't (remember the Gold and Silver's were in the PCGB Standards by then so the breed had already been stabilized).

Since the Greenfire Farm blood lines are from several unrelated sources in the UK the crossing of UK lines is going to bring out a lot of things. The more we understand about the way these birds breed the better choices we can make as to what areas to focus on first.

Okay worse case scenario: The Silver Gene and Cream Gene both produce head spots on the pullets. If we culling head spots we never get any cream birds. :-(

Okay that is a little silly since the head spots are said to be eliminated in many lines that likewise are said to have the cream gene, but has anyone taken the time to track the faint head patch pullets. I didn't but would be interested to know what percent are cream with faint head spots vs. what percent of the entire hatch are cream to see if there is any correlation. Again this is a curiosity. I will track this myself in the future if no one else has a grasp on the genetics or any practical experience.

 

[KPenley]

Looks like blackbirds is already tracking the light head spots

and even with the tiny spot it's obvious to me which of the chicks are female or male.

I can't wait to see the results of the spot study, but I agree that there is enough evidence of true cream pullets without a headspot...so it is possible. Maybe this would a be a good article topic for the CLB club this year or next

 

[GaryDean26]

Blackbirds13 did you track other pullets with head spots to see wht their plumage turned out to be?

 

[nicalandia]

I am curious. I just read the original UK standard for the Cream Legbar as printed in the 1959 Auto-sexing poultry associations annual and it does NOT say anything about the head spot (Pullets or Cockerels). It simple states under down type "As the Legbar". To my knowledge the standard has not changed since 1959. Can anyone with a copy of the Poultry Club of Great Britain standards confirm what is printed for the down color?

Blackbird has already answered this..

 

[nicalandia]

Okay worse case scenario: The Silver Gene and Cream Gene both produce head spots on the pullets. If we culling head spots we never get any cream birds. :-(

Okay that is a little silly since the head spots are said to be eliminated in many lines that likewise are said to have the cream gene, but has anyone taken the time to track the faint head patch pullets. I didn't but would be interested to know what percent are cream with faint head spots vs. what percent of the entire hatch are cream to see if there is any correlation. Again this is a curiosity. I will track this myself in the future if no one else has a grasp on the genetics or any practical experience.

the headspot on the females is independant from Silver(see Silver Welbars) and from Cream(see Cream Legbars female chicks without one).. I would be up to you to eliminate such a trait(I know I would)..but I would certainly cull the Dark males..

 

[nicalandia]

I dont like how these males are as dark(same brown shade) as the female, the males should always be at least a shade lighter than the females..


I would love to know what gene or genes are palying havoc with your chicks down coloration.. I dont think its cream. its something else.

here see what welbars chicks look like, the Males are Much lighter(2 shades) than the females. welbars have the same genotype as the Cream legbars which is e+/e+ s+/s+ B/B. except autosomal recessive cream ig/ig


Welbar chicks


sorry guys I´m clueless as what genes are at play on some of your birds. but I´m asking for help from knowledgeable people as we speak

 

[Flaming Chicken]

my only ccl that pipped then died was a pullet! i'm so upset!

So sorry about the loss of your pullet. Very disappointing.

 

[blackbirds13]

Blackbirds13 did you track other pullets with head spots to see wht their plumage turned out to be?

I have to admit I did not specifically track this but looking back at my pictures my cream girl was the one with the spot. I had few dark females from my original GFF gold girl that did not have any spots I believe but I sold those off late fall as they had too much gold for me. I only have the creamier ones left now.
This is the same female chick above - first pic 9/12 and the other chick pic 9/20 and I need to amend what I said before. This chick is totally cream not gold. Notice the head spot in the first pic and the lack of brown spotting on the overall body - she is totally cream like her mother and whiter than her 2 older dark cream sisters.
same pic from above 9/12
please this is just for the spot not the color as that is completely off due to several reasons.


pic of her at 9/20







In this picture date 11/01

this is her on the left and the girl on the right looked like this as a chick



and the girl on the right looked like this as a chick




This is her sister hatchmate - she got shrink wrapped and I had to help her out of the shell so her down feathers are all jacked up and her markings really messed up but no head spot but more gray tone to her color but also more brown


no head spot. I will try to keep track of the head spot as I go forward but it really is not a concern for me as it may be for others.

both males in the photo turned out too colorful. The lighting is off in that image as I stated before. It's basement lighting with a red glare from the heat lamp and an iphone image. I spend more time just looking at my birds and noting what they look like to the naked eye. There is no havoc being played with the coloration.


@ Niclandia -


I dont like how these males are as dark(same brown shade) as the female, the males should always be at least a shade lighter than the females..


I would love to know what gene or genes are palying havoc with your chicks down coloration.. I dont think its cream. its something else.



Below is one of the same males in the images you are commenting on so negatively. The female is not as brown as the males in any way

This is what they looked like in natural light and why I don't trust photos for true color and to make definitive, and negative statements about birds I don't personally own or have in front of me. The difference is quite noticable in person not just in how light or dark but also the tone (the level of gray) in the birds is also noticable.


ETA I intended this to help but once again I have a bad taste in my mouth. My degrees are all in Art so color is my thing. I had promised myself not to post anymore photos on here or get into any real discussions about genes as it always seems to turn in a negative direction and I'm really not happy with someone who I don't know basically calling out my flock negatively on photographs that i stated were poor in quality. If this has helped anyone I am glad for it but I have a website I'm working on and I'll work with the club and love my blackbirds 13 facebook page so Happy New year all. I'm so over this irritation.

 

[nicalandia]

@ Niclandia -
This is one of the same males in the images you are commenting on so negatively.
This is what they looked like in natural light and why I don't trust photos for true color and to make definitive, and negative statements about birds I don't personally own or have in front of me.


I intended this to help but once again I have a bad taste in my mouth. Happy New year all.

still too dark...