The Legbar Thread!

[nicalandia]

in the UK the breeder of this Male was told that this male could be in fact be Silver instead of gold with ig/g so she made a test outcross to a silver duckwing welsummer hen

this is the Rooster it belongs to Jilly potter from the U.K dont mind the date on the pic




can you guys guess the outcome? I'll post them in a while

and the answere is..... He is ig/ig s+/s+ B/B and when crossed to the Silver Duckwing Welsummer this is what came out

F1 Gold pullet.




F1 S/s+ males(look silver)



source of cross. breeder is from the U.K and Hen Gen is a colge of mine at the coop
http://www.practicalpoultry.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1244232149

 

[ChicKat]

WW- no recessive white, look regular
Ww - carry recessive white and will pass on the trait, look regular
ww - two copies of recessive white, look white

If you have one white baby...then both of the parents have to be Ww, since ww results in offspring that look white. Using a Punnett's square, Ww x Ww should result in 25% offspring WW (no recessive white), 50% Ww (look regular but carry recessive white), 25% ww (look white). This could be a problem quickly since one Ww parent passes the recessive white trait to 75% of their offspring.

If you want to get rid of recessive white: The only way I know to test quickly is to use a ww white parent to cross with your birds. If the other bird is Ww, then 75% of the offspring should be white. If they are WW, then non of the offspring will be white, but will carry the recessive gene. The WW parent is then a keeper.

Good use of Punnett's square - but this incidence does break the rules if only one of lonnyandrinda's 150-200 came up with it -- Doesn't that come to something like .0067% to .005% -- there's gotta be some other things at work here...... (or am I off a decimal place here.... duh.
ETA -- oh so funny -- I used to date a guy who, when he made enormous error - would say "I knew that...I just wanted to see if you knew/were paying attention. "

The easy way is 1 in 2 is 50%, 1 of 20 is 5% and 1 in 200 is .5%. What WAS I thinking ---> NOT.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

WW- no recessive white, look regular
Ww - carry recessive white and will pass on the trait, look regular
ww - two copies of recessive white, look white

If you have one white baby...then both of the parents have to be Ww, since ww results in offspring that look white. Using a Punnett's square, Ww x Ww should result in 25% offspring WW (no recessive white), 50% Ww (look regular but carry recessive white), 25% ww (look white). This could be a problem quickly since one Ww parent passes the recessive white trait to 75% of their offspring.

If you want to get rid of recessive white: The only way I know to test quickly is to use a ww white parent to cross with your birds. If the other bird is Ww, then 75% of the offspring should be white. If they are WW, then non of the offspring will be white, but will carry the recessive gene. The WW parent is then a keeper.

Bingo.... now how to convince hubby I need more pens for test breeding purposes?

 

[ChicKat]

Bingo.... now how to convince hubby I need more pens for test breeding purposes?

Tell him it is for the sake of science...that would work for me If I were him. LOL

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Well I already know now that the rooster and at least one hen are recessive carriers. This white is a female. I will have to wait for a white male so I can grow him out and then start test breeding all my females. I don't really want the gene because with recessive genes the more you breed with it the more it spreads around and you don't even know it.

 

[KPenley]

Good use of Punnett's square - but this incidence does break the rules if only one of lonnyandrinda's 150-200 came up with it -- Doesn't that come to something like .0067% to .005% -- there's gotta be some other things at work here...... (or am I off a decimal place here.... duh.

Well it's a chance thing. Rinda may have had just had an incredibly high number of WW or Ww birds hatch. You never know what the ones who died early in shell, etc were going to be, but those numbers would probably round things out a bit. The part that won't change is this: It takes two copies of a recessive gene to be expressed. So Ww or WW will never look white, where ww will never look anything other than white. Does that make sense?

 

[KPenley]

Well I already know now that the rooster and at least one hen are recessive carriers. This white is a female. I will have to wait for a white male so I can grow him out and then start test breeding all my females. I don't really want the gene because with recessive genes the more you breed with it the more it spreads around and you don't even know it.

Sounds like an excellent plan! I'm thinking about having a white pen, should I hatch any, for the purpose of testing the others. The cool thing is that even if all of your breeders were Ww you still have a chance of hatching 25% are WW! And within a generation or two you can have all WW/non recessive white carriers if you so choose.

 

[dretd]

and the answere is..... He is ig/ig s+/s+ B/B and when crossed to the Silver Duckwing Welsummer this is what came out

F1 Gold pullet

F1 S/s+ males(look silver)

source of cross. breeder is from the U.K and Hen Gen is a colge of mine at the coop
http://www.practicalpoultry.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1244232149

I am very glad that the test breeding came out this way. If he had been Silver then it would put in to question the entire breed's color genetics.

 

[1muttsfan]

Rinda, I wouldn't worry too much if you are getting few white birds. Many breeds have lots of genes that are hidden, such as dominant white and black birds - no telling what genes lurk in their makeup. It sound like only a few - or maybe just one- of your hens carry it, so many of the offspring should be free of the gene. That is a handsome roo. I did hatch out one white roo last year, but he was a devil and had a short career.

 

[nicalandia]

I am very glad that the test breeding came out this way. If he had been Silver then it would put in to question the entire breed's color genetics.

I personally dont think there are any true Silver birds in the UK. few people can handle the genetics of how the completely make a "Cream Creasted Legbar" look a like with silver. which as I said before can be done using nothing more than a Silver Duckwing leghorn pair. but as easy as genetics may sound to me, its very hard to grasp for other poeple