The Legbar Thread!

[cjwaldon]

What do you mean they don't breed true? Every chick I've hatched grew up to look like it's parents in every generation. If that's not breeding true then I don't know what is. Yes we are striving for improvement in areas like color, but that is a different criteria than saying they are not breeding true. I've never hatched anything that looks like a RIR, or a BR, or any other breed other than Cream Legbars from my Cream Legbars, and I've never hatched one I could not tell gender at hatch.

 

[ChicKat]

Have yu noted that the Araucana and Amerarucana color charts ahve a multi colored patch on them? Those are p
Pantone colors- so perhaps those charts could be considered a subset of Pantone and the breed color charts are accurate as Pantone for those colors.....So perhaps a subset of what DCchicken was saying....and others who said a blue section of Pantone would be nice for egg color exactatude. You know how chicken shows have egg contests? I think I recall seeing the Marans color chart in connection with an egg show....

Which reminds me..People in Texas, the Bluebonnet Classic poultry show is Jan. 4th.... It will be here before you even KNOw it. I wonder how the showers keep their birds from being Molty. If my CLs are laying by that time...I might put some eggs in the egg contest there-- Anyone else going? Entering??

 

[ChicKat]

Congratulations FMP --that guy has to be 1 tough rooster. So your climate has low humidity cold air. I have heard that the moisture is what generates the frost bitten combs. Last night we had freezing rain here...and everything has a thin coating of ice on. our cold is a damp one...so in 29-degrees, my guy's comb could have suffered more than yours in -25. Keep up the good work!

Congrats, DMRippy - CJWaldon has beautiful birds...now you have some too -- and can work to get them perfect like all your other breeds....;O)

Good luck with winter hatches everyone trying it. I have some set to hatch just after Christmas--dunno though - so dependent upon electricity ----

Keep warm everyone in the arctic air.

 

[ChicKat]

Really good point from CJWaldon, IMO Creamlegbars have been breeding true for sometime now, especially on the most important points...autosexing, crested, laying "blue" eggs-- Now we get into some of the finer points and finer and finer...to a degree of detail that's very deep......

 

[DCchicken]

Have yu noted that the Araucana and Amerarucana color charts ahve a multi colored patch on them? Those are p
Pantone colors- so perhaps those charts could be considered a subset of Pantone and the breed color charts are accurate as Pantone for those colors.....So perhaps a subset of what DCchicken was saying....and others who said a blue section of Pantone would be nice for egg color exactatude. You know how chicken shows have egg contests? I think I recall seeing the Marans color chart in connection with an egg show....

Which reminds me..People in Texas, the Bluebonnet Classic poultry show is Jan. 4th.... It will be here before you even KNOw it. I wonder how the showers keep their birds from being Molty. If my CLs are laying by that time...I might put some eggs in the egg contest there-- Anyone else going? Entering??

I was thinking about this over coffee today. Maybe we can use the Araucana egg color chart as a starting point (with their permission of course) and create our our own color chart. On one side we could have egg color and on the other we could have cream, gold, and silver colors. The chart would of course have a color calibration bar. I am going to reach out to a friend at Pantone and see if she will help. For those that don't want to purchase a chart (or have no idea how to calibrate a monitor), we could provide cross-reference numbers for paint samples of the common brands of paint at the big box stores. Paint chip samples should be color-accurate.

We can use the Araucana egg color chart for the egg color. But for the cream, gold, and silver colors, I suggest we start collecting feathers. Maybe if I give the girls mealworms they won't be so mad at me for stealing a feather or two.

 

[DMRippy]

What do you mean they don't breed true?  Every chick I've hatched grew up to look like it's parents in every generation.  If that's not breeding true then I don't know what is.  Yes we are striving for improvement in areas like color, but that is a different criteria than saying they are not breeding true.  I've never hatched anything that looks like a RIR, or a BR, or any other breed other than Cream Legbars from my Cream Legbars, and I've never hatched one I could not tell gender at hatch.

every chicken I own has to be culled because they don't breed perfect or true every time. they are not clones of the parents that is for sure.

I hope your breed turner than most birds I have....that will help TONS!!!

 

[ChicKat]

every chicken I own has to be culled because they don't breed perfect or true every time. they are not clones of the parents that is for sure.

I hope your breed turner than most birds I have....that will help TONS!!!

Good point - but then it depends a bit on how 'breed true' is defined.

In some ways if an instant look tells you the breed of the chicken and it is reasonably relevant to SOP, and that is replicated in the offspring generation after generation, then IMO that would be breeding true. - If we require a bird identical to SOP - then supposedly because it is perfection - and by definition perfection isn't attainble, then no bird would ever breed true - ever in any breed.

I guess we need to find the APA definition of breeding true.

ETA - there was a recent article about the "Preponent Male" - which simply means a rooster homozygous for all the genetics that comprise the phenotype of the breed, so all his chicks will have the correct charactistics of the breed, for example in Cream Legbars, a crest - and there can be a preponent female - so if you had two birds, that had the genetic make up of all the genes required - wouldn't that pair 'breed true'.... seems so to me.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

I consider all the current legbars out there as breeding true. All offspring come out predictable for the most part, other than crest for some, recessive white, and other issues. Type wise, my birds are all pretty uniform.
Look at the araucanas- you breed 2 show type birds together and you get tailed tufted, tailed smooth faced, tufted rumpless, smooth faced rumpless, variation of tuft size or only having 1, some lines throw single combs, and color can always be an issue but they are considered a pure breed that breeds true

 

[ChicKat]

I was thinking about this over coffee today. Maybe we can use the Araucana egg color chart as a starting point (with their permission of course) and create our our own color chart. On one side we could have egg color and on the other we could have cream, gold, and silver colors. The chart would of course have a color calibration bar. I am going to reach out to a friend at Pantone and see if she will help. For those that don't want to purchase a chart (or have no idea how to calibrate a monitor), we could provide cross-reference numbers for paint samples of the common brands of paint at the big box stores. Paint chip samples should be color-accurate.

We can use the Araucana egg color chart for the egg color. But for the cream, gold, and silver colors, I suggest we start collecting feathers. Maybe if I give the girls mealworms they won't be so mad at me for stealing a feather or two.

Good insight DC - It would be really interesting to find out the cost. The CL Club works hard to minimize expenses, and rather than replicate the other club's charts, perhaps we could just make an agreement with one of them - such as Araucana or Ameraucana - and purchase their charts. -- (for blue) -- A lot of us with both charts find it easier to use the OAC. Just easier to match the egg with somehow.

Regarding the other colors... Here is a link to another breed with Cream in the name:
https://www.google.com/search?q=cre...SXrYBw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=633&dpr=1

And here is a link with a breed with Gold in the name:
https://www.google.com/search?q=gol...4IG4Cg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=633

So with Cream Brabanter and Gold Laced Wyandotte - you can see (if the same images appear when you access the same search - images tend to change with the number of hits, I believe - )
There is a pretty big range of both Cream colored and Gold colored chickens. In chicken language - Gold is more accurately probably golden-brown in toast terminology......

It would be necessary to represent a range of colors to accurately describe the colors in chicken plumage. The range would have limits but it wouldn't be one color. Perhaps the Diane Jackey illustration of the Cream Brabanter is the light end - or white looking that some CL owners are targeting. IMO that doesn't make the more richly colored Cream Brabanters not Cream Brabanters. If I see/hear someone saying a more richly colored Cream Legbar isn't a Cream Legbar it gives me pause (to say the least).

Diane Jacky illustration of Cream Brabanter:
http://www.zazzle.com/cream_brabanter_chickens_postcards-239916850543259683

Diane Jackey illustration of Cream Legbar
http://www.zazzle.com/cream_legbar_chickens_postcard-239693012045392274

The first Cream Brabanter that shows in the search is also in the book the "Magnificent Chicken" and the photographer is Tamara Staples who is or was involved with a poultry magazine - can't recall which one, any familiar with her?

Bottom line, especially in the Cream Brabanters - there is a range of colors....

 

[TheTropix]

What do you mean they don't breed true? Every chick I've hatched grew up to look like it's parents in every generation. If that's not breeding true then I don't know what is. Yes we are striving for improvement in areas like color, but that is a different criteria than saying they are not breeding true. I've never hatched anything that looks like a RIR, or a BR, or any other breed other than Cream Legbars from my Cream Legbars, and I've never hatched one I could not tell gender at hatch.

I am sorry, I think you misunderstood. I said that wrong, while kidding with DMRippy, who had jokingly asked/remarked 'They aren't perfect, like their other breed chickens are?'. (just being tongue-in-cheek) I was talking about the perfection part. They breed true, all of mine have been easily sexable as well. We were talking about the 'newness' of CL in USA, they'd never heard of Cream Legbars. I apologize, DMRippy, if I misled you to think that CLs don't breed true. they do breed true.