The Legbar Thread!

[ChicKat]

Wait wait!!! Just found this thread.

I ordered 5 cream legbar chicks from Greenfire Farms end of March. I just put one down middle of May as she had all the symptoms of Mareks Disease despite having been vaccinated. She was unable to walk one morning and was making silent gasping movements with her neck and head. She soon developed the one leg out in front and was unable to stand or sit up without support. Eventually one leg started sitting out the back. She was my favorite and I nursed her for weeks dying with guilt that I shouldn't as I might pass the bug on to one of my other chicks. None of my other birds caught it yet she was in a pen where half the chicks had not been vaccinated. Was it not Mareks??

So very sorry for your loss Runner Bean, -- It sounds so much like Mareks I would agree that it was. If I recall correctly, from my research, there is a different Mareks vaccine used in the UK and here in the states. Not that that difference would affect much except perhaps making the USA Mareks something that their genetics hadn't built up as much defense against? dunno.

Mareks has a 12-week incubation period according to Merck Vet manual. I suspect that your other Legbars are resistant. I'm thinking a bird exposed, that doesn't contract Marek's is a very valuable bird indeed.

I agree with the posters here that aren't going to vaccinate....... All the GFF birds were vaccinated, but even vaccinated birds can get it. Happy to know you have 4 cream legbars left.

 

[Thespoiledchicken]

In my opinion , saying the vaccine is causing these problems is like saying the polio vaccine causes problems ...
So, if you get the polio vaccine after exposure to the disease, the vaccine is useless and you contract polio so I would assume the same principle can be applied to any vaccination....

Uhhh....The Polio vaccine did cause plenty of problems. It is well documented that the vaccine gave numerous people Polio (as well as protected people). The last children in the states to get Polio did so from the vaccine.

I'm not arguing vaccination- I'm stating my observation on vaccinated chickens- your experience may be different. It is true not to mix vaxed and unvaxed chicks together.


Trish

 

[madamwlf]

In my opinion , saying the vaccine is causing these problems is like saying the polio vaccine causes problems ...
So, if you get the polio vaccine after exposure to the disease, the vaccine is useless and you contract polio so I would assume the same principle can be applied to any vaccination....

These birds were vaccinated as day olds and weren't exposed to Mareks at all. I have never had a problem with Mareks in my birds until a few weeks ago and it's only with the birds that have been vaccinated. So, yes I see it as the vaccine is causing issues as no other birds are having problems. And none of my birds are vaccinated except the Tolbunt polish and the Legbars.

 

[Thespoiledchicken]

These birds were vaccinated as day olds and weren't exposed to Mareks at all. I have never had a problem with Mareks in my birds until a few weeks ago and it's only with the birds that have been vaccinated. So, yes I see it as the vaccine is causing issues as no other birds are having problems. And none of my birds are vaccinated except the Tolbunt polish and the Legbars.

I agree- I have to check and see if the vaccine is a live version or not. Live vaccines occasionally transmit the disease they are designed to protect against. That is what was happening with the Polio vaccine.

If there is a 12 week incubation period than this would make sense.


Trish

 

[klf73]

ok, here is a dose of reality. enough metaphors etc.
"you" will be used generally and not toward a specific person.
if you suspect mareks and don't get a necropsy done this is what happens. Your birds are resistant to it because their vaccine protected them. You decide to keep these birds and hatch chicks. You take care of your outside birds and then come into the brooder area to pack up some of these chicks to send to someone else, congratulations...you now possibly spread mareks to an unsuspecting customer, but now these chicks are all devastated because they were not vaccinated and the sad family gets to watch them all suffer a horrible death because at first they don't know what is wrong with them and they try their hardest to save their pets. It is a heartbreaking thing to have to endure, unless you have had it, you have NO idea.

Mareks is now being spread like wildfire throughout the poultry community, although most still seem to be in the dark about it. When I was hit I was contacted by a few "big" breeders and told a LOT of dirty secrets that are not exposed here.

Look for common denominators. Sherlock Holmes quote -How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

off my soapbox

 

[klf73]

These birds were vaccinated as day olds and weren't exposed to Mareks at all. I have never had a problem with Mareks in my birds until a few weeks ago and it's only with the birds that have been vaccinated. So, yes I see it as the vaccine is causing issues as no other birds are having problems. And none of my birds are vaccinated except the Tolbunt polish and the Legbars.

the vaccine takes time to take to take effect, exposure prior to developing immunity would cause the birds to contract the disease, this is fact.
I am not arguing where it could have come from but be wary and don't rule out any possibilities.

I honestly am not trying to start a fight, I was just hoping to offer some insight as I have already gone through all this.

 

[Thespoiledchicken]

ok, here is a dose of reality. enough metaphors etc.
"you" will be used generally and not toward a specific person.
if you suspect mareks and don't get a necropsy done this is what happens. Your birds are resistant to it because their vaccine protected them. You decide to keep these birds and hatch chicks. You take care of your outside birds and then come into the brooder area to pack up some of these chicks to send to someone else, congratulations...you now possibly spread mareks to an unsuspecting customer, but now these chicks are all devastated because they were not vaccinated and the sad family gets to watch them all suffer a horrible death because at first they don't know what is wrong with them and they try their hardest to save their pets. It is a heartbreaking thing to have to endure, unless you have had it, you have NO idea.

Mareks is now being spread like wildfire throughout the poultry community, although most still seem to be in the dark about it. When I was hit I was contacted by a few "big" breeders and told a LOT of dirty secrets that are not exposed here.

Look for common denominators. Sherlock Holmes quote -How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

off my soapbox

Please come down off the soap box and research this vaccine.

The older birds could have Mareks and she not know it- the vaccine masks the symptoms of the disease- not protects.

This is from Merck's website:

Indications
RISMAVAC

vaccine is indicated for the vaccination of chickens one day of age or in ovo to aid in the prevention of clinical signs of Marek’s disease, especially flocks exposed to a heavy or very virulent Marek’s disease challenge.



In my humble opinion- the vaccination is doing us a disservice. When a chicken has the disease- but symptoms masked from the vaccination- we unknowingly allow that chicken to infect many others. Without vaccination a sick chicken is dealt with and does not continue to infect others.



Trish

 

[madamwlf]

Please come down off the soap box and research this vaccine.

The older birds could have Mareks and she not know it- the vaccine masks the symptoms of the disease- not protects.

This is from Merck's website:

Indications
RISMAVAC

vaccine is indicated for the vaccination of chickens one day of age or in ovo to aid in the prevention of clinical signs of Marek’s disease, especially flocks exposed to a heavy or very virulent Marek’s disease challenge.



In my humble opinion- the vaccination is doing us a disservice. When a chicken has the disease- but symptoms masked from the vaccination- we unknowingly allow that chicken to infect many others. Without vaccination a sick chicken is dealt with and does not continue to infect others.



Trish

Thank you!

 

[ashandvine]

This came from somewhere, your older hens or the sellers. My initial thought was that it came with them, but I don't know. Either way you lost your birds and I am sorry for that. The vaccine clearly isn't an answer to biosecurity. "Buyer beware" and "quarantine" come to mind, but then, quarantine is only touted as one week not 12.... I guess "education" and "buyer beware" are the phrases for me today, especially if all a vaccine does is MASK a disease. Not really a vaccine then is it, just a means to getting folks to buy your birds before they die on their own. Hmmm... I'm starting to get mad. Going to go see my chickens and laugh at their antics instead. So sorry for your loss and for anyone who has had to try to keep their birds alive only to lose them.

 

[klf73]

Please come down off the soap box and research this vaccine.

The older birds could have Mareks and she not know it- the vaccine masks the symptoms of the disease- not protects.

This is from Merck's website:

Indications

RISMAVAC[SUP]

[/SUP] vaccine is indicated for the vaccination of chickens one day of age or in ovo to aid in the prevention of clinical signs of Marek’s disease, especially flocks exposed to a heavy or very virulent Marek’s disease challenge. 



In my humble opinion- the vaccination is doing us a disservice. When a chicken has the disease- but symptoms masked from the vaccination- we unknowingly allow that chicken to infect many others.  Without vaccination a sick chicken is dealt with and does not continue to infect others.



Tris

thank you but I have researched it more than you think. if you can show me a study that says the vaccine weakens the immunity in the birds making them prone to problems....that I would be interested in....otherwise, instead of being defensive maybe you can look a little more objectively...
also, a thought to ponder...if there is an adult carrier one of the other chicks hatched any other time on her property most likely would have gotten sick at some point because any unvaccinated bird is more susceptible under 5 months old. Have other chicks/ breeds been healthy until now? Just stay open minded and good luck