The Moonshiner's Leghorn Thread Peanut Gallery

[JacinLarkwell]

Smaller, lard-type pigs who come in some very pretty colors and are bred for grazing. The current livestock fad, slowly being ousted by Mangalistas, which are smaller, lard-type pigs with curly hair.

Pig fads are insane and pretty common. The current fad animal is nearly always touted as being "Perfect for small farms!! (meaning, smaller), Not the other white meat!!(meaning, lard-type) Won't tear up the ground!! (always an outright lie. There are degrees, but all pigs root)"

What does lard type mean? I literally know nothing about pigs besides a few weird, creepy facts and that their dropping stink like high heavens

 

[RiverOtter]

What does lard type mean? I literally know nothing about pigs besides a few weird, creepy facts and that their dropping stink like high heavens

There are 2 body types of pigs. Bacon type pigs are commercially raised, because they have a faster rate of growth and better feed ratios (pounds of feed it takes to make pounds of meat). They are more active in nature, being traditionally raised in woodlots where they would travel and forage for their food, and with harder muscles. The fat in their body deposits under the skin instead of marbling through the muscle, but they tend to put on growth more than fat.

Lard type pigs are often smaller (Although some breeds get huge) because they were an important source of fat on small farms and in impoverished areas, where often people got their protein needs met from lean sources, like fish or rabbit, or where protein was hard to get at all and root veg made up the bulk of the diet. Because they were often kept in small areas, they were bred for docile nature and often small size. They were bred to convert low-quality food, like grazing and veggie scraps, into fat - which is an important part of the human diet, although the modern diet has more than enough.
They have a softer, redder muscle, with fat marbled through it. They do put fat under the skin, but they put more internally, inside the body cavity (called leaf lard). They have a slower growth rate and poorer ratios, which traditionally didn't matter as they grazed and ate scraps, which would otherwise be wasted so anything is better than nothing.

As our diet changed and modern practices made protein and fat much easier to get enough of, fatty, inefficient lard breeds fell to the wayside in favor of their growthy cousins. So now, that kind of pork is a novelty that people will pay more for, although not enough more to justify hopping on the breed fad bandwagon, where money is made by selling breeding stock until the bubble bursts.

 

[RiverOtter]

Oh, and pig droppings only smell foul when they are getting more protein than their body can process. Most pig diets are high in soy to max out growth.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

There are 2 body types of pigs. Bacon type pigs are commercially raised, because they have a faster rate of growth and better feed ratios (pounds of feed it takes to make pounds of meat). They are more active in nature, being traditionally raised in woodlots where they would travel and forage for their food, and with harder muscles. The fat in their body deposits under the skin instead of marbling through the muscle, but they tend to put on growth more than fat.

Lard type pigs are often smaller (Although some breeds get huge) because they were an important source of fat on small farms and in impoverished areas, where often people got their protein needs met from lean sources, like fish or rabbit, or where protein was hard to get at all and root veg made up the bulk of the diet. Because they were often kept in small areas, they were bred for docile nature and often small size. They were bred to convert low-quality food, like grazing and veggie scraps, into fat - which is an important part of the human diet, although the modern diet has more than enough.
They have a softer, redder muscle, with fat marbled through it. They do put fat under the skin, but they put more internally, inside the body cavity (called leaf lard). They have a slower growth rate and poorer ratios, which traditionally didn't matter as they grazed and ate scraps, which would otherwise be wasted so anything is better than nothing.

As our diet changed and modern practices made protein and fat much easier to get enough of, fatty, inefficient lard breeds fell to the wayside in favor of their growthy cousins. So now, that kind of pork is a novelty that people will pay more for, although not enough more to justify hopping on the breed fad bandwagon, where money is made by selling breeding stock until the bubble bursts.

Ah, okay that makes sense. I didn't know there were actual pig types

 

[The Moonshiner]

@RiverOtter not a kune fan huh?

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Oh, and pig droppings only smell foul when they are getting more protein than their body can process. Most pig diets are high in soy to max out growth.

That makes sense. The pigs I'm Familiar with are 4H market pigs so i know they get a lot of protien

 

[RiverOtter]

@RiverOtter not a kune fan huh?

No, I love them, and I'll have a few ... in a couple more years when the bubble bursts and people are giving them away. In fact, there are 4 boars free on a local farmer's group I'm on, and I wish I could snag one of those, but I'm cutting down on livestock until I get some stuff sorted.

I raise potbellies for lard type pork. I have a few people who will pay a premium for milk-fed, lard-type pork, and a customer who likes intact male piglets to raise on his oak woodlot, because when they're acorn fed, they taste like wild boar.
I like crossbreds of 75% bacon type, 25% lard type for my own table, but I actually just eat whatever doesn't sell out.

 

[Amer]

No, I love them, and I'll have a few ... in a couple more years when the bubble bursts and people are giving them away. In fact, there are 4 boars free on a local farmer's group I'm on, and I wish I could snag one of those, but I'm cutting down on livestock until I get some stuff sorted.

I raise potbellies for lard type pork. I have a few people who will pay a premium for milk-fed, lard-type pork, and a customer who likes intact male piglets to raise on his oak woodlot, because when they're acorn fed, they taste like wild boar.
I like crossbreds of 75% bacon type, 25% lard type for my own table, but I actually just eat whatever doesn't sell out.
View attachment 2523798

Wow, you’re a lot like me. Ayam Cemanis are fine, but as long as there’s a fad, I don’t like them!

 

[RiverOtter]

Wow, you’re a lot like me. Ayam Cemanis are fine, but as long as there’s a fad, I don’t like them!

LOL, no, I like them - I just don't a thousand dollars worth of like them.

Here's the thing, I am a professional farmer and I have to do "farmer math". When my Bessie cow went down, I had to calculate her replacement value. Now, she has higher value to me because she's an educational animal (in case you can't tell, I teach basic agriculture on my farm) and I raised 5 calves to get one very special Bessie, who is eminently handleable and easily trained, and so has value above her milk or meat.

Then, I saw that the vet fees were less than that, and I bought a sling, which can be amortized, as it will be used again. So I could do what needed to be done. And because she's an educational animal, I may be able to get a grant if she needs hock surgery (because many people could safely learn about it with her), but not if the cost will be over replacement value rated as such, because then I can't get it ... and that's how it works, not just with me but with the agricultural colleges and organizations that would give the grant. I once had a sale barn calf get pneumonia and I put it down. A vet call would only give it a 50/50 chance and for the price of the call I could buy 2 other calves and a bag of milk replacer - farmer math isn't always fun.

Now, a pig is worth pork. Prices, like for Kunes, may be artificially inflated for a short time as people flood the market with breeding stock, but when you get down to it, if I was hit by a bus tomorrow, all my pigs would go right to butcher and if I paid a grand for Kune Kunes, there'd be a distinct and definite loss, because there's not a thousand dollars worth of pork on them.

Further, while people can get X times more than they're worth as pork selling them as breeding stock, EVERYTHING that hits the ground is breeding stock. In breeding, there should be improvement, but when there's a fad, quality declines. And lard-type pigs are already less productive. If I raise any other kind of pig, I can say "Ok, anything with less than 12 teats, pork. Anything from a litter of less than 8, pork. Anything that doesn't weigh xxx# by 10 months, pork" and breed the best and so is everyone else, so I KNOW I'm getting a good pig. Right now, with Kunes, size is all over the place, growth is all over the place, teat number (which is important in pigs) and litter size are crap, conformation is hit or miss - the only thing bred for is upturned face and color.

Once the fad has run it's course, and it's nearing it's end, that will stop being a problem. I'll have my choice of cheap animals as foolish people flood the market trying to recoup their investment and afford the next fad breed and will be able to build a quality herd affordably, which can pay for itself in a way the market can consistently bear - as pork. It's not like or dislike, it's farmer math.

I've worked with critters for years, and I've seen this in Vietnamese Potbellies, American Guinea Hogs, Miniature Potbellies, Gloucester Old Spots, Berkshires, Juliannas, Kune Kunes and the up and comer is Mangalistas.

Same as with chickens. Chickens are worth more than it costs to raise them ONLY for as long as they are in style and there is artificial demand. Once everyone has seen one in person and folks start thinking they have extra roosters, the price drops right back down. Because farmer math is that a chicken is worth the number of eggs it lays in a year minus what it costs to raise it to laying age and maintain it through laying. Period.

edited to add; Oh, and let's not forget Alpacas!! Holy heck, the alpaca bubble. People were paying 5 figures!! Alpacas are worth wool. I can buy alpacas all day long now at 50-200 each. Not to say some don't still sell for more, but I could have a dozen by next week and never pay more than 200 a head. Folks spent literal fortunes, dropped 50k and had to return a female baby to the breeder and lined up for it. Madness!

 

[RiverOtter]

And speaking of Bessie, at the low, low cost of one vet visit, lots and lots of time (which I didn't count as I'm spending it anyway) and having to rebreed her, since she lost her (early, happily) pregnancy, sweet Bessie girl is now regularly on her feet. Three of them, at least. She lost about 300# over the long ordeal, but is determined to regain it. If she wasn't so handleable and easy to manage, I'd not have been able to pull her through.

You can see how she's holding up that one leg and you can make out how her hock is still more than twice the size it should be, but boy, seeing her bury her head in that bucket for every little crumb thrills me to no end!