The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

Thank you to those that have given condolences and well wishes. I am sure frustrated losing birds to weird and bizarre things. Necropsy explanations for this bird elude me.

I keep doing them and learning any way I can. So far in the last five months I've lost two birds to suspected lead poisoning (Grey Silkies, egg peritonitis (POL pullet), sudden death syndrome (Blue Slate turkey chick), and now a HRIR ten week old cockerel to balloon syndrome. (For lack of a better description). An interesting fact....I didn't hatch any of these birds from my own flock. They were bred and hatched on other farms. A very strong reason for me to close my flock and not bring another bird onto my place.

I did not consider trying to save this cockerel because I would never have bred him into my HRIR flock even if he survived. He was just coming onto eleven weeks old. I have over a dozen HRIR cockerels left to choose breeders from.

This birds cavity and around his organs and every inch of his body was so filled with air bubbles, there is no way using a needle to withdraw the air would have worked. He even had air bubbles around his heart and intestines in his cavity!

The only thing different about this bird that I noticed before today was how big he was and his comb and wattles were smaller than the other boys. Which made me hope he was a female. This bird didn't move around much. Just liked to eat...and eat...and eat.. He kept up with the rest of the flock when they moved around the yards and gardens. He kind of waddled like a duck. It wasn't until an hour before I culled him that he became like a balloon.

Warning! Graphic Necropsy Images ahead





He continued to fill with air. His skin became so stretched and taunt it was sad. Very sad. He made no noise breathing. He didn't move if he could help it. He didn't struggle.



When I picked him up he began to suffocate. He was a completely soft and filled with air. He is still a live body in this above image. I gave him a swift blow to the back of the head after taking this image and he died quickly. He could no longer breath.



Immediately after death he did not deflate. He is all blown up.



His feathers are sticking out because the skin is stretched so thin.



The following images are the numerous air bubbles within his body cavity and between his skin and body muscle. I've never seen anything like this. EVER.



His breast area was divided into two huge balloons of air. There was also lots of bubble air clusters around every organ.



One air bubble over his breast. I popped the other one when I spit his skin for the necropsy.



I examined his trachea the best to my ability and could find nothing out of the ordinary. I still believe there was something blocked or broken.

There are a lot of images. Rather than put them all here at one time, I'm going to group them.



The lungs were flat and his organs were becoming pale from lack of oxygen.







.
 
Thank you for the pictures, Mumsy.

They definitely help to see what you meant by the air pockets being everywhere. I've never heard of Clostridium (general name for 100 species) for chickens until today, and I'm betting it's the same with many more here. Whether or not that chicken has/had that specific germ, it has already made an effect by showing us bird-keepers what to watch out for, and with hope, to swiftly treat any birds that we may come across with similar symptoms.

Also, I will link this as it does NOT belong to a chicken-related website. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium
 
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Thank you for the pictures, Mumsy.

They definitely help to see what you meant by the air pockets being everywhere. I've never heard of Clostridium (general name for 100 species) for chickens until today, and I'm betting it's the same with many more here. Whether or not that chicken has/had that specific germ, it has already made an effect by showing us bird-keepers what to watch out for, and with hope, to swiftly treat any birds that we may come across with similar symptoms.

Also, I will link this as it does NOT belong to a chicken-related website. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium
Thank you Quailsong. I like to read up on poultry disease and the wiki link was interesting.

This chicken presented no clinical symptoms of illness, injury, or poisoning. I found no signs of lesions, infection, or hemorrhaging except the localized area to the back of the head and neck when I dispatched the bird. He deteriorated so swiftly and with so little warning, I doubt there was anything I could have done to save him. Handling him brought about suffocation and it would have been cruel to keep him in this state any longer. There is no doubt in my mind he would have been a dead bird in the pen if it were not for my keen observations of my flock.

One of the necropsy observations I have learned is to closely examine all parts of the bird for irregularities. Also I put my nose close to the bird as I dissect and take note of smells that seem off or bad. (can be sign of infection or necrosis) Except for a bird filled up with air bubbles, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

I'm really beginning to think this bird may have ate very fast gorging so quickly something blocked or punctured it's trachea or blocked air passage.

More images to come soon.
 
Quote:

Carbohydrate
497

Fat
65.8


Protein
42.7


Read More http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5687/2#ixzz2Uc6ruVKk

thanks for clarifying my mis information. definitely worth looking into growing them. I keep reading that corn is a good grain for feeding in the evening especially in the winter as it is "hot". Is there any truth in this?
No. It is an old wives tail
how long does a broody normally stay off the nest when she gets off???
depends on the bird. I have some that get off every other day and some get off for hours at a stretch.
Hey everyone!

I've lurked this thread for a while, and unfortunately would like to cross-post my question from the illness boards. Any advice on handling this pullet?
She is currently in a bedded dog crate in my spare bathroom, still eating and drinking. A little miffed she's alone, but not obviously stressing, just tells me all about the accommodations and indignities whenever I check on her, then goes right back to being bored/quiet when I walk out.
Applied a warm compress for a few minutes earlier, planning on repeating tonight. Aside from the uni-lateral swelling, no obvious respiratory signs or distress, no sneezing, etc.
I can post more recent photos (these were taken around 11am) not much has changed except on the top lid there was a little spot of blood, almost like a skinned knee, but no obvious abrasions.
Ideas? Input?

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/787094/half-of-head-swollen-no-resp-issues-pics#post_11308170



Thanks much!
Ann
Looks like a possible allergic reaction but good reaction on your part to house seperate until you know for sure.
Quote: I do not give tea tree oil to any of my birds. I offer it to them ..they take it if they need it. Birds are pretty smart. I get a little dish and put the herbs/oil in the dish. The birds will use it if they need it. I am not the type of person who force feeds her birds or forces medicine in her birds. I make available to my birds things i think they may need that they can't get freely in the wild. I do add electrolytes to chick water. If you are letting your bird out... there is nothing else I can suggest for you. Perhaps someone else can help you.
Somehow I lost a couple quotes:

Pigeonguy - I think the numbers she was posting on the mealworms and corn were the GRAMS of protein in the particular portion rather than the PERCENT protein.


Is that right, Delisha?
I put in g for 100 grams.

you are correct
Thank you for the pictures, Mumsy.

They definitely help to see what you meant by the air pockets being everywhere. I've never heard of Clostridium (general name for 100 species) for chickens until today, and I'm betting it's the same with many more here. Whether or not that chicken has/had that specific germ, it has already made an effect by showing us bird-keepers what to watch out for, and with hope, to swiftly treat any birds that we may come across with similar symptoms.

Also, I will link this as it does NOT belong to a chicken-related website. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium
This is just my opinion....


What that bird had is not something I would ever recommend anyone to ever treat. The secondary issues and problems that would come with it would be so astronomical and over whelming and ongoing the outcome would certainly be grim. What Mumsy did was the logical natural thing to do, it was educational and interesting. She practiced good animal husbandry skills.
 
I see no evidence of infection anywhere in the pics, no inflamation or pus or discoloring. I may be completely wrong but I would think more along the lines of a structural issue rather then infectous. In humans you can have a "bruise" (for ease of understanding) in the lung tissues, this can form a "bleb" if this bleb ruptures and is big enough it can collapse the lung, ususally in humans you have a sac around your lung cavity and if that stays in tact and the lungs leak air through the bleb it will result in a collapsed lung then eventually pressure build up in the thoracic cavity that can lead to stopping the heart and displacing it in the cavity (called tension pneumothorax) if that sac around the lung area is breached or does not remain intact air escapes into the body. From the birds I have opened I have not seen that "sac" around the lung area so if this bird's lung started leaking the air would do what you see in the pics, become subcuteneous emphysemia. In humans the recovery involves peircing and popping air bubbles all over the body repeatedly, recovery is hard, and long depending on how much air escaped into the body before it was stopped. I have known of one person in long term care facility that was undergoing this procedure, but do not know if they survived to complete discharge.
 
Mumsy,

That is very interesting to say the least. I wish I was there to help do the necropsy. I would have loved to learn about this unusual phenomenon. I have never seen it nor read about it. I would imagine that bird would have been dead a long time ago if it was not for your good care. Any chance it had any green color in the chest area, on the other side? This is not the usual air sack or inflation of skin from infection. This is something else entirely since the organs and inner cavity have been effected.

Vicki
 
I see no evidence of infection anywhere in the pics, no inflamation or pus or discoloring. I may be completely wrong but I would think more along the lines of a structural issue rather then infectous. In humans you can have a "bruise" (for ease of understanding) in the lung tissues, this can form a "bleb" if this bleb ruptures and is big enough it can collapse the lung, ususally in humans you have a sac around your lung cavity and if that stays in tact and the lungs leak air through the bleb it will result in a collapsed lung then eventually pressure build up in the thoracic cavity that can lead to stopping the heart and displacing it in the cavity (called tension pneumothorax) if that sac around the lung area is breached or does not remain intact air escapes into the body. From the birds I have opened I have not seen that "sac" around the lung area so if this bird's lung started leaking the air would do what you see in the pics, become subcuteneous emphysemia. In humans the recovery involves peircing and popping air bubbles all over the body repeatedly, recovery is hard, and long depending on how much air escaped into the body before it was stopped. I have known of one person in long term care facility that was undergoing this procedure, but do not know if they survived to complete discharge.
What you have shared here makes the most sense to me. I have been acutely studying the necropsy images of this bird and though I am no lab technician, I do trust my gut instincts. This bird was bubbling over with air in every conceivable place. Like it had a leak. Here are a few more images.


The first thing I did was take a picture of the exposed neck. It was filled with bubbly air pockets. There was no bad odor. Every thing I touched was puffy with air bubbles.



It was over an hour with the entrails sitting out before I got a chance to examine or take pictures of them. The color can change quite a bit so I didn't pay much attention either than I found no necrosis. There was ingesta in the crop, gizzard, upper, lower, large intestine and the ceca as well. The only place I found no ingesta was the proventriculis. The crop was full of fresh fermented feed and had no odor.


I snipped opened the crop.


The proventriculis was empty.





It was extremely difficult to extract the esophagus and trachea. My eyes are not good enough to examine it. I really think something went wrong in this area.


edited to add: The crop wasn't blocked into the proventriculis and that wasn't blocked into the gizzard. I opened and examined all the contents of the ceca and upper and lower intestine. There were contents moving along. I believe this bird gorged very fast this morning and then something went wrong before it could begin to digest.
 
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Underside of liver with gallbladder. Unremarkable.

Heart. Unremarkable.

One of the lungs burst when I pulled open the cavity. They both seemed flat to me. One of the testes seems odd shaped. This cockerel looked girly on the outside. I wonder if these testes could be the reason? I found no eveidence of disease or infection here or in the Bursa.

Turning the Bursa inside out to look for signs of disease was tricky.

Here is a picture taken a couple weeks ago of this cockerel I thought was a pullet.


The large nine week old healthy bird looking at the camera is the one lost today.
 

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