The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[delisha]

Hello all! I am a BYC lurker. I spend lots of time reading through lots of different threads. I found this one and was hooked! I read all 169 pages in three days! My goodness you all have a lot to say and thank you for it! I have learned a ton on BYC but never so much in one place as here. Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!!

I am in my first year of ckicken keeping. I got into it quite by accident but I am truly hooked. I have a small flock of feed store impulse buys and I love every one of them dearly. Last year we babysat an incubator for a friend while they were on vacation and the chicks hatched on our watch (hence the accidental dive into chickendon. How to give back the very first chick your kids watched hatch after she peeped at us for 48 hours from inside!?) We raised our little flock in our family room in a portable dog run and held and loved each one every day. My girls and I all made special chicken aprons with large fuzzy high pockets that we carried the chicks around in. Because of this or maybe due to our chickens natural personalities we have 8 of the sweetest chickens. Every one is happy to be held and snuggled. Our little bantam sneaks into my daughter's jacket to snuggle up where it's warm. We can take eggs out from under anyone, pick up and move our two constantly broody girls, and share snacks with any of them from our laps. We love this!\

This spring we are planning to hatch a few rare breed bantams for my daughter to show 4-H and maybe a couple super layers for her little egg business. We have a bantam cochin and silkie who are broody almost every other month. It would be fun to let them hatch some babies but we don't want to lose the chance at having super friendly birds. Also we are homeschoolers and would like to be able to do daily candeling for a school project.

I know the thinking here is to let chickens be chickens but how much do you give up in the friendliness department when you have hen raised babies? would it make sense to do half and half? Half in the incubator and half with the broody? I want healthy happy chickens but I also want a happy chicken loving daughter.

Thoughts? Ideas?

I'm off to stir my first batch of ff. Thank you for all the valuable info!

Welcome to the thread! I am delighted you found it!
FF...how wonderful!
You are making good decisions.
As a suggestion on hatching for a daily learning learning tool you can add the pictures of egg development and a good lamp to watch the chicks movement inside the eggs. Hatching out eggs in an incubator and observing a hen hatch out a batch of chicks all at the same time can be a school project. You can still candle the hens eggs, just not as often. And hand sanitation needs to be very strict!
Have fun!!!

 

[aoxa]

Welcome to the thread! I am delighted you found it!
FF...how wonderful!
You are making good decisions.
As a suggestion on hatching for a daily learning learning tool you can add the pictures of egg development and a good lamp to watch the chicks movement inside the eggs. Hatching out eggs in an incubator and observing a hen hatch out a batch of chicks all at the same time can be a school project. You can still candle the hens eggs, just not as often. And hand sanitation needs to be very strict!
Have fun!!!

I never use hand sanitizer.

I handle hatching eggs like regular eating eggs (don't jostle them around much for either). But no washing.

I use Oxine in my incubator to cut down the humid egg smell when hatching, and it kills bacteria that lurks in our water. Other than that, no special precautions are taken. I do wash my hands thoroughly when I come in from the barn.

My hatch rates are 90% and above. Almost 100% of the fertile eggs make it to term.

 

[aoxa]

Leah's Mom

Remember last week how we were discussing how FF doesn't give them energy? Here's more on that...

I agree with the first part of this (up to the point where this person states that the body will produce plenty of energy).

The body only produce energy from foods that contain energy. If there is "no energy" in the food the body can not make energy.

The one thing that I think this person may be forgetting is that chickens eat to fill there energy needs, if chickens are fed a low energy diet they will eat more feed to meat there energy needs and there egg production, and or growth will be less than ideal.

If you dont mind me asking where did you post my comment at?

Chris

Chris,

Just asked fellow fermenting feed friends on the Natural Chicken Keeping thread. Was going to ask it in the FF thread, but the other one is very active, and I got a response right away.

It concerned me, as the only feed my birds have been eating is fermented for 48 hours. They get scratch in their bedding. That's about all the extra they have right now. Sometimes leftovers - though not for a while. I toss the scratch in the bedding to get them to keep it stirred up.

I am noticing less consumption VS more consumption. They all seem to have tons of energy. Hope I'm not doing anything wrong.

I don't think I would ever feed 100% fermented feed. I know guy's that swear by fermented grain/ oats but they never feed a 100% fermented feed.
Other than a loss of some of the energy, you are "predigesting" the feed and in turn your are making it more easily digested but by making the feed more easily digested the fibrous foods do less in providing some warmth in the winter wile being digested in the body.

Note--
A high fiber food/feed will take longer to digest (in the body) and in turn helps keep your chicken "warm".

Chris

I only "ferment"/ soak grains and I feed only about 20% soaked grain to 80% of there regular feed (I might push 30% soaked grain in the hot summer) As far as the fodder go's, it's nice to feed when there are no other form of greens around. I myself feed a little extra Alfalfa Meal in the winter to supplement the loss of greens.

I try to feed 80 or 70 percent regular unfermented feed.

Chris

My feed is not highly fermented. Like I said, it sits for about 48 hours total. Maybe 72 at the very most.

I have been feeding the chicks 100% fermented and I've never seen such a fast feathering rate. Also haven't lost a single chick, and I usually do lose one or two in batches. Just my experience with it. My chickens have been dealing with the cold no problem. Here in Canada, we have lots of cold weather.

If I noticed odd behaviour (acting cold) I'll consider adding back dry feed. As of now - every thing I've seen is positive. They are more active, better feathering, eat less, drink less, lay stronger eggs with bigger yolks, have higher hatch rates from said eggs. Only negative I've noticed is with silkies getting it all in their beards.

Not saying you are wrong in your assumptions. Maybe I'm not noticing any of the negatives because the feed isn't highly fermented?

If your letting it sit for 48 to 72 hours then you are just soaking (not fermenting it), cockers have been doing this with there oats for years and it most likely dating back 100 years or so.

Chris

 

[delisha]

Quote: Delisha

Are your coyotes around during the day time also, or only at night?

I see them at dusk and dawn

 

[delisha]

Quote: She is doing a school project with children. Hand sanitation is a must with children and chickens. They constantly touch mouth, faces, etc. You just stated you always wash your hands when you come in, kids do not. It is for there protection, as well as the porous eggs.

 

[Mumsy]

Directed at ANYONE! I want to know how folks are handling this!

I have learned over many decades of raising chickens that you can not let down your defences what ever they may be when it comes to protecting your livestock. Just when you think it won't happen to your birds because it hasn't yet...That's when something CAN happen. Whether it's your own dog going blood crazy insane and wrecking carnage in your barn or a Great Horned owl gets hungry enough to swoop in out of the dark surrounding trees and off with your prized roo or hen. I've lost chickens to just about every kind of pred over my life time.

I just went out to check the chick house to make sure everything was in order. At 7am here it is still very dark out. Barn lights still out. I can hear the owls close by in the trees. I never open my barns or pens early. Unless I'm right there with the flock. An owl or eagle can take off with a bird and they could care less if your big dog is sitting right there on the barn porch. Snatch, grab, and away is their game. I have learned with predators that you can go years without one and then it just takes them getting a taste. Whether your neighbors flock near by or just down the road. Once they know your flocks address the problems can start. Remember...The predators were living in your neighborhood for a lot longer than you and your flock. They have had to adapt. So we do too. The best defence is a planned defence. I use tightly built barn/coops and pens and I use electric fencing. But...I still won't let my birds out before it's light out. They go in to roost on their own at just before dusk.

 

[aoxa]

She is doing a school project with children. Hand sanitation is a must with children and chickens. They constantly touch mouth, faces, etc. You just stated you always wash your hands when you come in, kids do not. It is for there protection, as well as the porous eggs.

Oh for the children's protection! Duh.. I thought we were talking for the eggs.

Yeah.. chickens carry Camplyobacter without showing any signs at all. I learned this the hard way. Remember your dogs as well. Mine love chicken poop. They also love to lick us. Poop to dog to us = very sick.

I was hospitalized for over a week in isolation. I do not handle infections well and my bowel was being corroded by the Camplyobacter.

Constant pain for 3 months after too.

Lesson: DO NOT LET YOUR DOGS LICK YOUR FACE!

 

[IttyBiddyRedHen]

Aoxa - I think just having dogs around - any dogs - makes a diff. I think predators smell the dogs and tend to be a little more wary even if they aren't lgds.

Unfortunately, the dogs we have around...neighborhood dogs....killed some of my chickens. They won't bother next doors, but then, they have some good dogs protecting their flock of 20+ chickens.
My chickens now have a large run, 30' x 32' , covered with bird netting. But that is only to keep the chickens in it. They all still get locked up in the coop at night. We know we have gray fox not too far back behind us. And of course, hawk during the daytime, as well as those other dogs.

 

[loanwizard]

Questions for ALL FREE RANGERS - No Matter How Much Acreage You Have

1. How long have you free ranged?
2. Describe your free-range area and practices.
3. How is that different in spring, summer, fall, winter?
4. Do you use a guardian dog or any other guard animal?
5. With or without guard animal - what has your experience been with predators? What about hawks?

I have free ranged for 2 years. 1st year had a coop and run, 2nd year a coop and free ranged, this year they have 1/2 of the 75' barn with 2 horse stalls as roost and layer boxes, although 13 roost by the hogs.

We have neighbors, can't see their places from mine, and 11,500 acres of state wildlife area behind us. My farm is only 4 acres. The chickens go wherever but not too far. We have tons of hawks during migration time. We have 8 dogs. There are tons of coyote activity but none near the farm, so the dogs must be a deterrent. I never lock the birds down. To my knowledge I have not lost a chicken to a hawk. I have live traps at the ready and have security lights at either end of the barn.

This year I have lost approximately 16 birds, 4 to water issues such as a bird falling into a water barrel, 2 to unknown, being I found them laying in the roost area with no apparent cause of death, 6-8 from 2 dogs before they were trained, and a couple unaccounted for or perhaps never existed.

Winter, they are just a tad more labor. Summer, sometimes they get fed, other times not. Winter feed and water after the pond and puddles freeze solid.

 

[aoxa]

Unfortunately, the dogs we have around...neighborhood dogs....killed some of my chickens. They won't bother next doors, but then, they have some good dogs protecting their flock of 20+ chickens.
My chickens now have a large run, 30' x 32' , covered with bird netting. But that is only to keep the chickens in it. They all still get locked up in the coop at night. We know we have gray fox not too far back behind us. And of course, hawk during the daytime, as well as those other dogs.

Hawks are not a worry for me. Eagles are abundant here, and I've seen them fly over many times. They do not go for the chickens. They go for fish. They'd have to be really hungry.

We had one issue of a goshawk. Thankfully they are very private hunters, and once he knew there were humans nearby, he never returned.