The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[JulesChicks]

The Marans are Black Copper Marans and are tiny and just kind of pathetic looking compared to the ones I got in April who are only 5 days older. The nicer ones I have are large, beautiful girls and have a gorgeous beetle green sheen to their feathers. The combs on the new ones are black and a pale cream color - weird. Both are smaller than my others, with one looking bantam size.

I am willing to try the Tylan first before culling, I just don't want this to continue on and certainly don't want it to affect the others. I am assuming that I should treat all 6 in the quarantine pen to be safe, which would include the layers. So, what do we do with the eggs? Thanks so much Lacy.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Yes, treat all in the quarantine pen.

You only need to treat for probably 3 days. 5 at the most.

Regarding the eggs, let me first say that the container advises against slaughtering a bird for human consumption before one day has passed that they have been off the medication.

For layers, laying eggs for human consumption, it advises against giving it to them at all.

My question is... if its safe to eat a bird after one day being off the stuff, why isn't it safe to eat the eggs from a bird which has had it at all.

Are any of the birds in your quarantine pen laying? I thought they were all pretty young.

So, that is what the container says. I've used it on my layers last year when the weather took a sudden drastic change and I had birds getting symptoms one after another. After killing about 2 dozen birds, I had to stop. I decided to treat them and then give supportive therapy (electrolytes and probiotics) I don't believe in antibiotics, I really don't. I was afraid I wouldn't have any birds left if I didn't use it. They were like yours except they didn't even have runny noses. Just a congested sneezing going on and rattly breathing. No other symptoms at all.

 

[JulesChicks]

Yes, two are around 7 months (the Swedish Flower Hens) and are laying, another, the older Cream Legbar is about 29 weeks and should be laying any day. The affected ones are the younger ones, all hatched on 3/20 - the 2 BCMarans and the crested Cream Legbar. We have another pastured egg source. Should we scramble them and feed to them or our dogs until after treatment?

I believe in being as natural as possible and building strong immunity- talking about my family here, which is now being applied to our chickens. However, if my child was severely ill I would use antibiotics and hate it. I believe prescription meds and antibiotic use in my life (allergies, asthma) contributed to poor gut health which contributed to a positive Strep B test during both pregnancies and the "need" for antibiotics during delivery which set my kids up for poor gut health in spite of my efforts to have a very natural birth (they were natural in almost every other way - small bit of pitocin with one). Thankfully both of my children have been healthy, but my youngest does suffer from tummy aches and rashes. So, I am always watching what she eats (gluten free, low sugar, natural as possible, probiotics) but it's an uphill battle when they don't get populated with the good bacteria at birth.

In chickens, how do I know whether to treat for 3 days or longer? With humans, they say to complete the course so you don't have a rebound, so I'm wondering. Do I stop when symptoms resolve?

Thanks so much! I will look for the Tylan tomorrow.

 

[Lacy Blues]

You can stop when the symptoms stop or go another day. It's up to you. I'd probably go another day.

For gut health, yogurt is the best thing in my opinion. I've tried the acidophilus capsules and stuff and they didn't seem to work for me. I also don't see how the bacteria can survive the drying process or in the case of the oh so healthy FROZEN yogurt instead of icecream, How do they survive that super cold process? I doubt they can. I also know for a fact, that before the sugars are added to not only frozen yogurt but also regular yogurt, the sugars kill the bacteria. They truly do. If people going for gut health, they need to learn to eat plain, unsweetened yogurt.

You can start off by mixing it with unsweetened apple sauce and a bit of cinnamon if you like. That's what I did. Now, I eat it without additions to make it more palatable. It will grow on you.

 

[JulesChicks]

I make homemade water kefir from kefir grains, a new batch every day or two (the most cost effective way to get probiotics in my opinion - once you buy the grains all you pay for is the organic sugar to keep them going). I will be making milk kefir but the grains didn't get going so I have to get more. Kefir has even more strains of beneficial organisms than yogurt. I'll be making my own yogurt too, just haven't developed a fool proof method yet, so I may have to get a yogurt maker. For now I buy plain, whole milk organic yogurt for the kids and sweeten with a little raw honey.

 

[JulesChicks]

Ack! I have another challenge. One of the Wellie pullets (7 weeks old) is feather plucking down to breaking the skin on the Ameraucanas - at the base of their tails. I noticed it last Saturday and thought it was because they had outgrown their brooder. I immediately separated them and then built a separate brooder for the four Ams and put the 2 Wellies in the old broder. The backs have healed up and I haven't seen the culprit doing it so I thought all was well. Right now we are in the orchard with the littles and the one Wellie started doing it again, right in front of me and even while trying to catch her or shoo her away. They are getting Scratch and Peck starter feed. Is this a protein deficiency issue, a brooder issue , or now a learned bad habit or a combination of the above? What should I do about it? Thanks! They will have a new coop by next weekend if we don't have any more delays. I'm afraid they're too little to put them in with the healthy 15 week old Marans.

 

[lalaland]

Juleschick, you might want to check out different illnesses that show up with nasal discharge. Here's a start : http://www.clemson.edu/public/lph/ahp/disease_links/images/poultrydiseases.pdf


Ameracuanas, EE's, etc are generally flighty and can be targeted by other breeds because they usually won't stand up for themselves - the only time I've had chickens with tail feathers being pulled have been with EE's.

Best thing to do is to ensure the run/coop space is big enough for them to get away, and to provide visual barriers - crates, hay bales, etc. You may end up having to permanently separate the wellies from the am's.

ALthough feather picking can be related to boredom, lack of protein, stress - it can also be a learned habit. Since you said you were out in the orchard, I would think there was plenty of distraction around!

Good luck.

 

[JulesChicks]

Exactly! That's why I was shocked she was still doing it with so much else to do. I have a book on diseases and such and it didn't really help with just a runny nose. I always try to do my research before asking and then I reach out to those with experience and wisdom.
I don't want to foster weak birds and don't want to get in the habit of giving antibiotics so we may end up culling. Haven't decided how to proceed yet.

 

[Leahs Mom]

They are on straw over concrete in 4x10x4'high chicken tractor with lots of ventilation and about 4 feet of it is covered on 3 sides so it shouldn't be drafty. Night temps are high 40's, low 50's since we got them 3 weeks ago. I guess it could be allergies. It's just weird, they are acting fine, just have the runny noses. My DH wheels the tractor out for them to dustbathe and get some grass but only on the weekends when we have more time. They were on ground most of yesterday.

@JulesChicks
I have some thoughts....only thoughts so take it for what they are



It is "possible" that it's a mold issue. Aspergellosis (spelling?) caused by certain molds in the environment can cause the symptoms that you're describing. That can lead to breathing and issues and death over time.

The first thing I'd try is removing all straw. Straw is notorious for harboring mold. I'd try replacing it with wood shavings and dirt.

Second thing - Check for any wet feed in the bedding or anywhere else in their environment. It can also begin to harbor the molds that cause the problem. Also check for wet bedding around waterers. Be sure to remove all wet bedding and keep it dry.

With aspergelosis, symptoms can start slightly and then continue to get worse over time. And if you can get the mold source out, it can be alleviated if done before it gets too bad.



Along the same lines...
If you're feeding wet feed (or "fermented feed") I'd stop that temporarily. Soaking/fermenting the feed can also increase the "bad" molds if it's not done by lacto-fermenting (which is anaerobic). If there is any hint of mold/yeast smell stop feeding it in this case. You can re-start ff later on after you know things are okay with the breathing problems

 

[Leahs Mom]

PS: if it is a mold issue, giving antibiotics will make it harder for them to regain health as the antibiotics will take them out of balance and allow the molds/yeasts to flourish.

If you try the thoughts I have above and don't see an improvement within 3-4 days, then go another route. I also highly advise some Avi-Culture 2 put into their feed. It's the only avian probiotic on the market that is not grown on a GMO substrate. The little container goes a long way.

http://www.avi-culture.com/shop.html

(Crummy website but good product)