The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[FridayYet]

Alright, so the sickest girl is at the vet. She was very good for her checkup. I left her there for the afternoon so they could take several swabs which I will then send to the state lab tomorrow. The most expensive test is the one for MG, which is $50, the others are much less. I need the information though. The vet said there are very few antibiotics approved for chickens and the FDA has recently made a more stringent rule- if you treat with antibiotics you cannot consume meat or eggs from that bird EVER. So, it looks like best case scenario we are culling 3 birds, worst case, my whole flock of 17 (which includes 11 healthy birds not in quarantine). I didn't have the strictest quarantine since I had to go into their pen to take care of them- if I ever brought in birds again I would put them in cages where I could reach food, eggs and water. So, time will tell. A very difficult situation and learning experience to be sure.

Thank you for sharing your story, it will make others, including me, more careful with future quarantines.

 

[Leahs Mom]

@JulesChicks

Watching. What's more frustrating is that whoever sold you those birds would have known that they were in that condition unless they were just totally new and uneducated in chickens.

 

[tjo804]

When the tests come back from the lab make sure they know who to contact for further testing! (the party who sold the ladies to you). If it is communicable or contagious others have the right to know if they have purchased from a sick farm I am not sure if there are laws about that or not?

 

[SherrieC]

Might want to stop the ACV and just use fresh, clean water daily while it's hot out.

Yeah I did that and it never returned once I stopped putting ACV in. I add ACV into their mash instead but its winter currently though would've been autumn then but cold..

 

[JulesChicks]

They are not new to breeding and are in the business of "preserving rare breeds", though my opinion now is that they may have too many breeds going to do any of them well. The Marans I got from them are pretty sad looking compared to the ones I got from a backyard breeder - much smaller and unkempt looking (ratty tail feathers), and my other ones are only five days older. And they have both crested and non-crested Cream Legbar in their flock and it seems to be of no concern to them even though the standard clearly calls for crested in all of them. If they were pretty serious about preserving breeds they would be breeding to the SOP, from the research I've done on the subject anyway.

I tried to be non-accusatory while at the same time ask if they have any possible respiratory issues in their flock and let them know mine are still sick. I did let her know that the one arrived sick and the other 2 followed shortly, so I don't know why she's insinuating they got sick at my place. And I had already told her the symptoms of all three birds are the same. So, here's the response I got back from the breeder.

"I'm very surprised to hear any are sick after this length of time Julie. How are you treating them? Or rather with what? We've had no issues with chicks to date, and considering the length of time, it's doubtful that it was anything transmitted from here or it would have shown up immediately. The initial one, was likely stress from travel, but can't explain the two you are referring to now. Most likely something that they had no immunity to in the environment there, versus here. Please let us know the findings from the lab study. Were the birds ever separated when you were treating the CL? Are the symptoms same/similar or different. Without knowing symptoms it's very difficult to even determine. There are tons of things it could be, so it's a matter of elimination of what it isn't rather than what it is or could be. Good you are having tests done to determine if possible what is wrong. We will appreciate hearing what the test results show."

Basically, she is not taking any responsibility at all. If it's true they have no issues in their flock, maybe my girls aren't seriously ill and won't affect the rest. Only time will tell. However, all three certainly do not have vigorous immune systems, and that really was in their control. When you have two people running a breeding program with over 300 birds I don't know how thorough one can be. They seem really nice and like they have their stuff together so I am hoping for the best at this point, but I don't like her insinuating that I haven't taken good care of them. I may lack experience with chickens, but I am pretty smart and conscientious, and took my time researching, etc. I can assure you I spent more time getting ready for these girls than the average person going to the feed store to buy chicks in the Spring (not that there is anything wrong with that - kinda wishing I had done that and just bought an assortment all at once- I just wanted breeder chicks vs hatchery chicks). Sigh.

Question on the VetRx - if it's going to help, how long before you notice a difference? I had given up but maybe I should resume it in case this is a minor thing they can shake? It has seemed to only affect the 3 three-month olds and not the 3 laying/about to lay ones so I guess those 3 are stronger?

 

[lalaland]

I guess thats the kind of response I might have expected from the breeders - if they were to allow themselves to consider there was a problem, that would be perhaps unthinkable to them. Not saying it is ok, but it is the kind of denial that some people practice when the reality is too tough - if their flock is infected then what? I'm thinking a good breeder would have carefully looked over the birds before selling them and would have noticed the nasal discharge. Also, would have said bring them back (even if they would have had to cull them versus risking bringing something from your place to theirs....)

Have you been offering free choice garlic - fresh, chopped - to the ill birds? its a good immune booster and antiviral. It will not hurt and could definitely support them. I would be sure to give them the choice. You might want to take one clove per bird, chopp it, and top dress it with a few bits of corn or oats or something that will appeal to them to get past the "its new and I don't like it" stage. If they take it all, offer more. If they leave it alone, try it again later with perhaps a different "bait" - maybe yogurt (unsweetened and with probiotics) or watermelon.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that you get the best news possible from the vet testing.

On the vetrx, it might make them more comfortable depending on how heavy the discharge is. You could discontinue it - when I use it, which is rare, I use it just a few days. I can't really provide any good reasoning for that however!

 

[dutchlion]

@JulesChicks I have been reading your posts and had to look at your location (several times) because all the way across the country... I'm singing the same tune. I purchased 4 juveniles and 2 hens about 3 weeks ago from a heritage breeder. I did research and took my time being careful because, like you, i didn't want hatchery stock. I purchased 2 Javas (1 white and 1 mottled), 2 Amerucanas (1 blue and 1 black), and 2 Barred Rocks. I inspected them all when upon purchase. Within 24 hours of being home, the Mottled Java showed the same symptoms as your "patient zero". Then went the Blue Amerucana- but not nearly as bad (she never sneezed or had the runny nose- just slept a lot). Now one of the Barred Rocks- but only the sneezing.

They are all in quarantine away from all other chickens- and have been since we brought them home. Granted it's the waiting room of hell here (and has been for weeks) but we have fans going to keep the sauna like air moving. We are careful with biosecurity as well so we don't accidentally infect anyone else.

I emailed the breeder who told me that he had noticed several others with the same symptoms (DUDE! WHAT?!?!). His farm is NPIP certified. He had called the state vet and they recommended Tylan. I wasn't comfortable giving the chickens injections, so after several days of trying garlic water/ electrolytes &probiotics, we went the route of oxytetracyline- which seemed to help. But now based on what you've said from your vet (FDA regulations)- i've got 6 chickens (yep i treated everyone

) that i should have just taken back to the breeder or culled (which i don't really want to do). we use our chickens for laying hens and are starting up heritage breeding.
I have the State tech coming tomorrow

for our NPIP re-certification. what a hot mess.

 

[Lacy Blues]

dutchlion, Tylan comes in a powdered form as well as an injectable. 1 tsp/gallon of water. Mix it into a little warm water first to get it to mix (it doesn't seem to like cold water) and then you can add cold water to it. Use for 3-5 days.

 

[Leahs Mom]

@dutchlion
Both of your experiences are very similar to what I keep hearing from folks that purchase started birds. Makes me

It gives me more reinforcement to stick with my decision NOT to purchase started birds.

I've wavered on that a couple times, but now reading this - which is adding to a heap of folks I already know who have experienced similar - it helps me keep my resolve.

 

[dutchlion]

dutchlion, Tylan comes in a powdered form as well as an injectable. 1 tsp/gallon of water. Mix it into a little warm water first to get it to mix (it doesn't seem to like cold water) and then you can add cold water to it. Use for 3-5 days.

the Tylan i found here wasn't for poultry and i was afraid to use it. should i try a round of it?