The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Pozees]

Any one try vinegar to kill the grass under the fence? I have heard this is effective, but of course have not tried it yet.

We tried white vinegar on weeds several years ago. It worked where the sun was right on the weeds when they were sprayed with the vinegar, and it took a fair amount to do it. That means you really can't use it as selectively as you might want to. For the purpose of clearing a fence line it might be perfect. Boiling water, especially salted, will also work. Nothing will work as fast as chemicals, but the more natural alternatives also won't cause long term damage to the environment.

 

[Mumsy]

Any one try vinegar to kill the grass under the fence? I have heard this is effective, but of course have not tried it yet.

Yes. I have used White vinegar to kill grass and broad leaf weeds in the pathways of the potager garden. It kills top growth only. Perennial grass and weeds will continue to come back so repeating application is a continuous process throughout the growing season.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote: RedRidge
I use whey sometimes but haven't been consistent (I make cheese from raw cow milk so I use it when I make cheese. Due to various issues, I haven't been consistently making cheese in awhile.) Don't know if I've done it enough to answer questions you may have. You can PM me

And...I'm interested in hearing how your maremmas do with the chickens and how you train them!

 

[RedRidge]

And...I'm interested in hearing how your maremmas do with the chickens and how you train them!

LOVE my maremma... they are very different from other breeds and as a former obedience competitor I had to get over wanting to "train them". A little guidance, yes, but training is something to be avoided.
Their instinct and intuition is so strong... it's amazing... it's more a matter of learning to trust them, and guiding them toward (or discouraging them from) a behavior which is unacceptable.
Mine are taught "off", "sit", and "wait" from a young age... I don't want them jumping on me, they have to sit for food, and they have to wait to go through netting or gates until I tell them it's ok. Other than that, I do walk them on a leash a few times as pups but that's about it.
As far as livestock... little pups are great to put with adult chickens because the adult chickens won't put up with any nonsense. I'm talking 6-10 week old pups. Then, they don't go with chickens again until they are several years old... but it's important to expose them to the chickens as a pup and of course, they are around them all the time just not "in" with them. Just like baby lambs... The pups hit a point about 4-5 months old where I don't put them with baby lambs. They don't actually go through the lambing process until they are a few years old - depending on the maturity of the dog. Permitting them to be "pups" while still setting boundaries is the key between 6 and 18 months. No chasing or playing with the livestock. Having two pups about the same age helps as they take their daily play out on each other.
After my dogs are a few years old... have been through a lambing season (which is very educational for them since ewes in labor are to be guarded but avoided, and ewes with newborn lambs will fight even a pack of coyotes), then I consider using them with chickens. Mostly because that's what works around here. I always use my oldest maremma as the chicken guardian. They have earned the right to be in a more restricted area and not asked to cover so much acreage. They are also more dependable. And... they have barn access... something the older dogs (in my soft hearted opinion) have earned with old age. The youngsters sleep in the snow and rain with the other livestock and think nothing of it.
I've noticed it also comes in handy to have an older maremma around who really has no patience for "flying things" other than their chickens. A maremma who looks up is priceless and will teach the younger dogs to look up when hawks and turkey vultures fly anywhere close.

Didn't mean to go on... but I couldn't free range my chickens here without them. We have way too much heavy predation pressure in the form of coyotes, mountain lions, bears, and (out here in the country) packs of dogs.

 

[Bulldogma]

no glue. Swelling of the wood does the sealing. No I have not tried a wooden waterer. Something I would enjoy doing if I ever found the time.

One of the stables I worked at used those wooden half-barrels as horse waterers. They were wonderful... but you can't let them dry out or it takes the wood a while to swell again - and drying out can allow them to crack. Just keep them wet and they're wonderful.

It's going to be 80 degrees tomorrow! Summer weather for us

LOL - and winter has descended upon VA again... or at least early spring. Cold, wet, windy - bleh! I don't mind the rain, but I don't do cold.

LOVE my maremma...

Didn't mean to go on... but I couldn't free range my chickens here without them. We have way too much heavy predation pressure in the form of coyotes, mountain lions, bears, and (out here in the country) packs of dogs.

Welcome! And great info! Thank you for "going on" about them - this is exactly the kind of information we love here! You can't get much more natural than a good livestock guardian dog to watch over free ranging chickens!

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote:

And...I'm interested in hearing how your maremmas do with the chickens and how you train them!

LOVE my maremma...
Mine are taught "off", "sit", and "wait" from a young age... I don't want them jumping on me, they have to sit for food, and they have to wait to go through netting or gates until I tell them it's ok. Other than that, I do walk them on a leash a few times as pups but that's about it.
As far as livestock... little pups are great to put with adult chickens because the adult chickens won't put up with any nonsense. I'm talking 6-10 week old pups. Then, they don't go with chickens again until they are several years old... but it's important to expose them to the chickens as a pup and of course, they are around them all the time just not "in" with them. Just like baby lambs... The pups hit a point about 4-5 months old where I don't put them with baby lambs. They don't actually go through the lambing process until they are a few years old - depending on the maturity of the dog. Permitting them to be "pups" while still setting boundaries is the key between 6 and 18 months. No chasing or playing with the livestock. Having two pups about the same age helps as they take their daily play out on each other.

Have you ever started with older dogs (not raised by you)?

 

[RedRidge]

Yes, my very first maremma was a 7 yr old spade female.
I searched high and low for an experienced dog because I was moving much further out, it was December, lambs were due to start dropping in Jan, and we had NO fencing on a virgin farm in a heavy predation area.
I was panicked... whew... it was a long few months til spring... we had cattle in cattle panels, sheep in electro netting with barn access, and used a stall of the barn for the chickens that winter and kept them totally confined.

I finally found an experienced maremma I could afford... took the gamble (she was still pricey)... best money I ever spent.
I had her brought down from upstate New York the first week of January.
I was skeptical how she would do at 7 yrs of age in a new environment, new owners... we put her with the sheep that night in the barn on a cable... she settled right in.
We kept her cabled for a few days since all we had was electro netting... after the third day, she was turned loose inside all the netting with the sheep... she's been here ever since until I lost her last Monday due to complications from surgery :-( She would never leave her livestock for anything. The lambs slept with her... there is still a picture of her on my web page - I haven't been able to take it down.

I now have another 7 yr old who I didn't raise... a male I got when he was 6 months old (he is 2 now)... and one I raised who is 18 months old.
So... I have a few youngsters but really need another... I have no "old" dogs right now.
The seven yr old female is (or will be) bred to my male... I hope...
(Unless she has a huge litter all pups are spoken for - thought I'd toss that in).

In "my" ideal situation, I'd have a pup coming on about every 3-4 yrs. I like to work them in pairs whenever possible - especially out on big acreage. They rest better when they do sleep and work great as a team... amazingly well actually. They each establish their own "job" and "role" on the farm and all work together, even if they aren't in the same pasture. For my purposes, having at least 3-4 is necessary.

A word of caution to anyone considering lgd's.... the one disadvantage is that they do bark. More than 50% of their job is "to deter". Barking at threats is the way they do that. If you like in the city... it's a very rare ldg (of any breed) that wouldn't be viewed as a nuisance if they are really doing their job correctly.
They do not nuisance bark (or shouldn't anyway), but they do bark when they think there is a threat. It is their JOB to do this, so they should NEVER be fussed at for it. That's hard to do when they are right next to the house at 3am and have a opossum cornered who they are just certain is going the eat all their sheep.

So... holding yourself back from fussing at one who lives in the city would be quite a challenge.
As another side note: A lot of people ask me why I chose maremma instead of pyrs. I don't want to knock the pyrs, but many of them have had the instinct bred out of them. But, the biggest reason is because maremma work totally different... they stay "with" the livestock as opposed to working the perimeter of the property. I wanted protection where the livestock was.

 

[BlueMouse]

Went out to let the chickens out this morning, and no buff orpington hen. Go in to make sure all is well, and there's Mrs Henny Penny on the nest, screaming at anyone who comes within three feet. Maybe I have a broody? I guess we'll see if she spends all her time on the nest. If so what should I do? I have some cream legbar eggs coming later this week. Do I dare give her shipped eggs? I'd frankly rather broody hatch than incubate, but have no idea about broody hatching with shipped eggs. Especially expensive shipped eggs with an untried broody. What do you guys think? I defer to the experts! My other concern about her going broody is that my nest box is an old milk crate, turned on it's side, with a piece of wood stapled to the front. It's not that big, and Mrs. Henny Penny is NOT a dainty girl. Will she be ok in there or should I try to move her to a larger "nest?"

 

[RedRidge]

Went out to let the chickens out this morning, and no buff orpington hen. Go in to make sure all is well, and there's Mrs Henny Penny on the nest, screaming at anyone who comes within three feet. Maybe I have a broody? I guess we'll see if she spends all her time on the nest. If so what should I do? I have some cream legbar eggs coming later this week. Do I dare give her shipped eggs? I'd frankly rather broody hatch than incubate, but have no idea about broody hatching with shipped eggs. Especially expensive shipped eggs with an untried broody. What do you guys think? I defer to the experts! My other concern about her going broody is that my nest box is an old milk crate, turned on it's side, with a piece of wood stapled to the front. It's not that big, and Mrs. Henny Penny is NOT a dainty girl. Will she be ok in there or should I try to move her to a larger "nest?"

LOL - sounds like my predicament... I can only tell you what I did.
I had my live incubator, her name is Muccle the D'uccle, go broody almost 4 weeks ago - on a golf ball.
She was determined to hatch that gold ball. So... I put 7 RIR eggs under her 21 days ago today.
She is in a sideways milk crate with a piece of wood, 2 feet in the air. UGH I've been worried sick about the chicks hatching and falling out.
So... I added a second piece of wood (vewy cawrfoowy) to the front of the egg crate to make the ledge "taller".
The "plan" is move she and babies immediately after hatching... I have her new apartment ready... we'll see if it works according to plan.

In the meantime... yes I received 17 Rhodebar eggs in the mail... no I didn't give them to her even though she was a proven broody.
Mostly because as a little hen she couldn't possibly hatch that many large eggs - 7 is pushing it.
So... my Rhodebar eggs are in the incubator.

I will let you know later today how hatching is going.... You can see the 1x2 slat at the bottom... I have since zip-tied another 1x2 slat above this one.

 

[kristigal8]

Now I am in now way an expert, but was looking into ways to cut my feed costs and discovered Planting your scratch feed in your free range area. An old farmer told me to section off an area at a time and throw your scratch feed out along with melon, pumpkin, bean and various other seeds. I am not talking about corn scratch, but rather 5way or 10 or better yet 12 way scratch. There are some companies that do treat their seed/feed with something that does not allow them to sprout, but others, smaller companies I think, that do not. I have an area that is full of seed, bean, sunflowers, millet and lots of other sprouting food for the girls. As soon as It develops more, I will let them in that area and plant another. I have spread it into three areas so hopefully I can get a cycle rolling. In the winter I will get trays and sprout in my little shed barn. I have removed the plywood roof and put clear plastic cover so I can use the sun in the winter to sprout trays, which will go fast, Im sure, but it will be something. Just a thought and I am excited at the prospect. I am just one broke chicken girl who cannot even imagine paying that kind of money for feed that is natural. Of course, this is not a GMO free idea or Organic, rather just an idea that will look for me. Hopefully