The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[Leahs Mom]

Quote:
Since I'm looking at the livestock, it helps me know what to plant in my pasture. Since the livestock I'm looking at are all ruminants eating grass, I try to apply the grass issues to the ruminants.

Since chickens are mono-gastric, and omnivores, I often think in terms of what works for people and other mono-gastric, omnivorous animals can often translate over to the chicken. Now, of course, there are some differences in the digestion system - more in some birds than others - but until I find something to convince me to the contrary, I treat a chicken as the mono-gastric omnivore that it is!

One thing that I think you have to consider is that ruminants left to feed as they were designed have grass/browse as their main nutrient source and, thus, eat much more of it than an omnivore. It stands to reason that the omnivore that has a choice can find other sources to feed from if a particular grass source has become toxic.

I think that's what you see when folks say their chickens "know what's good for them". A little taste and they're off to something better - IF THERE IS SOMETHING BETTER AVAILABLE.

Most of us offer our chickens a variety - including the freedom to forage at one degree or another. In that kind of scenario I don't think there is a worry with them eating too much of any food substance that is harmful.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Here's a chicken link...but my disclaimer is that there isn't any grain that I like to feed without at least soaking, with sprouting or fermenting preferred due to the several "anti-nutrients" that are reduced in those processes.

http://www.ca.uky.edu/smallflocks/feed_ingredients/grains.html

OH...disclaimer 2: ABSOLUTELY NO SOY!

(I know I've shared the why several times in this thread ...you can search.)

 

[RedRidge]

Since I'm looking at the livestock, it helps me know what to plant in my pasture. Since the livestock I'm looking at are all ruminants eating grass, I try to apply the grass issues to the ruminants.

I'd recommend any of Greg Judy's books... you might find that the best thing you can do for your pastures is not to plant, but to properly encourage the good native grasses that are there by intensively rotating your grazing.
We had overgrazed pastures from horses on one of the pastures when we moved here and it's amazing what rotating cattle, sheep and chickens onto a small area at the proper growth (and removing before that forage is less than 4") will do to improve your pastures. We had a lot of buttercup for instance (highly toxic, although bitter so not too palatable unless there is no other choice in forage).... we have less than 20% of the buttercup we had 2 years ago simply by using netting and rotating at the proper time.
If you had told me how much improvement we'd have in our soil testing results in only 2 yrs I would have never believed it.

 

[RedRidge]

Here's a chicken link...but my disclaimer is that there isn't any grain that I like to feed without at least soaking, with sprouting or fermenting preferred due to the several "anti-nutrients" that are reduced in those processes.

http://www.ca.uky.edu/smallflocks/feed_ingredients/grains.html

OH...disclaimer 2: ABSOLUTELY NO SOY!

(I know I've shared the why several times in this thread ...you can search.)

Since you have first hand experience with fermenting, I'd love to know your opinion about overnight soaking in raw milk whey? I have a LOT of whey several times a week... I'd rather not ferment since I have so much livestock. But I am considering soaking since my feed mixture gets sorted by the bigger chickens.
Would love your thoughts?

 

[Leahs Mom]

I have one area at the back that is pretty bad. I had thought about just spreading some horse manure and seeing how it might take off back there. So far it's all native and I'd love to see it do well without a lot of seeding.

The only thing I know right now on all of that is my "book knowledge". Have plenty of netting to rotate and I may just feed the front part divided into 2-day graze size then move but not use the back part at all and see what happens by next year!

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote: Yes - ABSOLUTELY! I make cheese too so whenever I have whey I soak like you're saying. Even just an overnight soak helps reduce the anti-nutrients in the grains making them more bio-available. If you could let them soak a little longer - all the better! And believe me, they LOVE it!

Since you have the whey several times a week, you could even start a large bucket or 2 with your feed and the whey and feed it on the second or 3rd day and just keep rotating so you always have some going. If you do that, just be sure the level of the whey stays above the feed about 1/2" or so to keep the feed under the liquid while it's soaking.




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As far as fermenting feed without the whey, a lot of us here are fermenting all feed and using a very simple system which great results. Depending on how large/small the flock is, some use very small containers all the way up to large "trash-can-size" containers to ferment various items including regular pellets, crumbles, whole grains, mash, etc. Once you get it started you just keep adding and taking away with each feeding time.

I use lacto-fermentation...here are a couple of articles (you may have already seen them - if so, you can disregard!) A 3-part article:

Part 1: Why Ferment
Part 2: Which Kind of Fermentation
Part 3: Simple "How-To"

 

[Leahs Mom]

Funny...I just realized that I have some soaking on the counter right now but this time I'm using sour milk (raw) w/a little acv a)dded to speed up the clabber (cheating a bit

) That particular jar of milk is right at the beginning of souring so I'm sending it to the chickens - another one of those things they love!

 

[RedRidge]

Yes - ABSOLUTELY! I make cheese too so whenever I have whey I soak like you're saying. Even just an overnight soak helps reduce the anti-nutrients in the grains making them more bio-available. If you could let them soak a little longer - all the better! And believe me, they LOVE it!

Since you have the whey several times a week, you could even start a large bucket or 2 with your feed and the whey and feed it on the second or 3rd day and just keep rotating so you always have some going. If you do that, just be sure the level of the whey stays above the feed about 1/2" or so to keep the feed under the liquid while it's soaking.

I 'weigh' my grain when I feed each day according to time of year (forage available), and how much BSF I have to supplement my protein that day.
In the winter, for instance, when I have no BSF, I feed 1/3 lb for each production layer, and 1/2 lb for each large heritage.
What changes in the amount you feed if you soak? I have heard you feed less.... but how much less?
Is that a weird question?

 

[RedRidge]

Funny...I just realized that I have some soaking on the counter right now but this time I'm using sour milk (raw) w/a little acv a)dded to speed up the clabber (cheating a bit

) That particular jar of milk is right at the beginning of souring so I'm sending it to the chickens - another one of those things they love!

I give whey, soured milk, and sometimes curds (which is their favorite) to the chickens all the time... I simply never thought about using the whey regularly to soak the grains. Gives a whole new perspective. Right now I just pour the whey into a stainless dog food bowl every few days when I don't have the time or inclination to make any whey cheese.
Sounds like I need to make better use of my whey... and it refrigerates just fine for several days, so... I can stretch out it's use until the next batch.

Or... I could get brave and ferment. I have about 60 hens right now though... that's a lot to ferment and keep up with.
Not to mention all the chicks I have right now.... hmm... you really got me thinking

 

[RedRidge]

And how do you prevent the soaked or fermented grains from going bad with chicks.
Unlike the hens, who will consume immediately if given the opportunity, the chicks have free choice all the time.
How do you handle that? I would think it would get pretty nasty pretty quickly and you'd have a lot of waste.