The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[stonykill]

That's where I'm heading... just w/chickens.

Stony - do you ever put in birds just for meat? Or do you do meat from your regular flock?

extra , actually nearly all newborn roosters are meat. Out of the regular flock. This year most Drakes as well.

 

[FarmerJH]

So.... I just read more than I ever knew about FF on The Thing http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.ca/p/fermented-feed.html and I have some lovely glass jars (from a terrarium obsession) to make it in...
If I am feeding 10# per month would it stand to reason that I would go down to 5# per month on FF?
Can I keep that same pretty jar indefinitely on the counter? and just keep adding dry to it (and water, to cover)?
And it seems like it will be okay for a day or two, but beyond that probably not. So I would no longer be feeding my chickens "once a month" but I would need to do it every day (which I don't exactly have a problem with, just the fear of leftovers going bad) so that would mean like less than one serving/slotted spoon of feed per day (to work out to that 5# per month thing)?

Also, thank you EVERYONE for the responses!

I'm not sure you could cut it by half... someone with more experience with FF needs to answer that one.
I suspect it depends on many other things... forage and other things you feed that may not be in what you are fermenting.

Some things I've learned...
Only ferment your "grains"... not the additional ingredients if you are mixing your own feed - especially fish meal P U

Don't choose a place to keep your ferment bucket where the temp varies a lot or where you may be making other fermenting things or starters...
I make sourdough bread (so I keep a starter), I make cheese (different cultures), I make water kefir and milk kefir every 48 hrs (starter grains)...
I don't like to keep them all in the same place...
My FF bucket is in a feed room in the barn... I use a 5 gallon bucket with an old towel and a HUGE rubber band around it to hold the towel on.
Other things to have handy... a scale, a strainer, a large plastic or stainless spoon to stir.
Because you need all of these "things" every day... I find it easier and less timing consuming each day to leave it all laid out in the feed room... having it on my kitchen counter would drive me crazy simply because you also need the dry to add to replace what you take out daily and the strainer, etc. But this is just my experience.

The feed room stays cool in the summer and doesn't freeze in the winter; otherwise I'd keep it in the basement.

Well said, and I definitely second adding the animal protein right before walking it out to the chickens, don't add it to the ferment. Animal proteins carry the wrong type of bacteria and you end up culturing rotting meat/feed versus healthy probiotics.

Quote:
Amen

 

[stonykill]

I'm at a decision point with my flock of ducks (9 adults, 3- 8 wk old Pekins, 3- 6wk old Runners, and 2- KC 3 wk old ducklings; 17 Total). Cumulatively, they are eating me out of house and home. Most days, the flock free ranges during daylight. I'm lucky to get a 40# bag of layer feed to last 1.5 wks. Plus I'm feeding the young ones starter still. So, my question is this, are the youngest ducks old enough for me to move to a one-feed-for-all? I have the 2- 5 gal strainer system ready to start tomorrow, but I guess I'm a little unclear on how to give subsequent (after the first) batches of FF enough fermentation time. Please see my post on the FF thread. I'm going to have to part ways with my Pekins unless I can find a more economical way of feeding them. I really think the whole flock has just really grown accustomed to the Michigan Winter Diet of feed from the bag and I really need to do something and quick. Thank you all for your ideas and responses.
Holly

you are way overfeeding. I can make 100 lbs of feed feed 100ish birds a week, I have about 25-30 in breeding pens. The rest free range all day and this time of year I feed them VERY little. I make them look for their own food. And they are healthy, lay really well and go broody. Probably healthier than if I fed them processed food from bags

 

[Mumsy]

I think Delisha and Mumsy would be good to hear from on their experiences using fermented vs. dry. Both of them have fed flocks for years and I'm SURE they have some comparisons they can share!

I just started feeding fermented feed seven months ago. I fed dry All Purpose crumble for decades before this. In the last seven months I noticed faster weight gain, faster and lusher feathering. My flock is healthier. I'm running sixty birds right now in my yard and gardens. They get fermented mash in the morning and in the late afternoon. Most of my flock are chicks under five months of age. The fermented feed is gobbled up lickitty split. The dry would get wasted before the chickens were through with it. And filth would get in it. The fermented doesn't sit around long. My feed is doing what it's supposed to and then some. They eat dry as readily as fermented if it's offered. They don't seem to care at all. My six Blue Slate turkey poults are two weeks old and thriving on fermented organic turkey mash. So far...In seven months time....I have not had one sick chick out of fifty. The only birds I've lost in the past year were those I bought elsewhere that came to me with problems. I just butchered four young cockerels and put them in the fry pan. They were grown out on fermented feed. They were delicious. I only put dry out when I throw a handful of dry pellets in the grass to gather them to me so I can get a look at all of them.


Barn yard four week old chicks mixing it up with six and nine week old Heritage RIR chicks. Everybody gets to eat. I fill three pans twice a day for these guys.

Skinless fried cockerels raised on fermented feed from day one. It was YUM!

 

[cywiar merch]

I'm not sure you could cut it by half... someone with more experience with FF needs to answer that one.
I suspect it depends on many other things... forage and other things you feed that may not be in what you are fermenting.

Some things I've learned...
Only ferment your "grains"... not the additional ingredients if you are mixing your own feed - especially fish meal P U

Don't choose a place to keep your ferment bucket where the temp varies a lot or where you may be making other fermenting things or starters...

Please ocrrect me if I am wrong but I thought it would have been even betterto have it around sourdough starters, cheese etc - don' they all need the bacteria/ yeasts to multiply and grow in order to ferment so therefore the more the better? Or do I just not understand this process?

 

[RedRidge]

Quote:
Please ocrrect me if I am wrong but I thought it would have been even betterto have it around sourdough starters, cheese etc - don' they all need the bacteria/ yeasts to multiply and grow in order to ferment so therefore the more the better? Or do I just not understand this process?

Having other things in the ferment would be fine... I add ACV and frequently feed clabber or whey also...
But I don't want to cross-contamination the other way around... I'm careful about what is out when... and actually there is a balance between rotating also.
When I made cheese for living I was careful to use different starters each day and never the same exact lot number two days in a row (even if I was making the same cheese) - this avoids bloom... will ruin the cheese.
So... everything has a "home" and no two things that "grow" are out at the same time.

 

[HollyDuckFarmer]

  you are way overfeeding. I can make 100 lbs of feed feed 100ish birds a week
...

I do not doubt that you are correct, but am I reading this correctly? 1# per week?

 

[Leahs Mom]

Us cheesemaking types (me home level - RR Artisan level) are very careful on cross-contamination and I'd definitely not be making bread the same day or in the same place as I'd be making my cheese. I didn't even use the same cloths. I was always very careful to keep any cloth towels that I used in making cheese totally dedicated to the cheese only - stored in zipped bags or other containers that couldn't pick up anything from the air after thoroughly washing. I often chose to use paper instead for that very reason.

As far as the ff goes, since most folks aren't making cheese in the house, I don't think you have to worry about it as much. However, I am VERY CAREFUL not to introduce yeasts to the ff. I want the lactic acid bacteria to be in charge in the ff. Said it before, but balance is the key and even though there are naturally occurring yeasts in the atmosphere, you don't want them to take over the mix. Lots of posts about that prior.

In that vein, I would be sure my ff wasn't open in the same room I was raising bread or using yeasts of any kind.

And if the ff starts to smell at all of yeast/mold or alcohol, I don't feed it to the birds.

 

[stonykill]

I do not doubt that you are correct, but am I reading this correctly? 1# per week?

this time of years it is all i go through. I open the doors at around 7 am and close them at 8:20 pm right now. They eat what I give them in the morning and forage the rest of the daylight hours.I do not feed before bed and they all go to roost with full crops. I fail to see the point of free ranging and offering never ending food bowls. So I don't. My birds do great.

 

[delisha]

I think Delisha and Mumsy would be good to hear from on their experiences using fermented vs. dry. Both of them have fed flocks for years and I'm SURE they have some comparisons they can share!

Hit and miss..hit and miss for years and years. When I started back in 1980 I fed a scratch feed. I do believe a bag was .50. We raised pigs, sheep and goats. The goats were fed mostly good quality hay and very little of it. During milking they were fed the chicken scratch. Pigs were fed the goat milk and scratch grains mixed together. The sheep were pastured. We grew out a calf during kidding time when the milk came in heavy. Sold and butchered out all the kid males and fed the uneatable parts to the animals. We also raised sheep for a short time. Ducks, geese, chickens, goats, sheep, cows, pigs, horses, and dogs. All on about 10 acres. I am not sure you could call mixing grains and goat milk as fermented feed. It never was in the troughs long enough to ferment. The poultry were always chased out of it. I have always had a heavy meat based high protein diet for poultry. Low grains protein.
I feed my flock so they are a bit hungry. I want them bursting out the door to go look for food. I want them to kill and eat the mice. Over fed chickens are not healthy. They need to be kept busy. It is hard for me to give advise and opinions since so many cage there chickens. The nutrician needs are so different. My birds hunt their food. Even my baby's are hungry and hunt. I like the FF foods now because the baby's are stronger. Feather out faster. They seem so much smarter for some reason. They need less food to be happy and hunt. I have tiny little things out hunting and not huddling by a heater. No cocci. I have huge birds. It would be easy to let them get fat and let them sit at a food dish. I do not let that happen. The adults are made to look for food all day long. They come home with a full crop. I have tons of areas with bugs galore for them, they just need to go get them. There are still mice in my coop, so, they are not hungry enough. I will never go back to dry feeding. I will always have high meat based protein for my birds. Low grain protein.

Every single month... same thing... fill up the feed bucket.
My 6 chickens go through about 8-10 pounds of feed per month (that's a 12 pound feeder, and isn't completely empty). My 5 farty baby ducklings who are in a pen and not free ranging yet go through nearly two pounds per day.
I was just thinking... I will probably need to learn some new tricks when winter comes. Question for those who primarily allow their chickens to free range or forage (particularly in more northern areas where it freezes)... what should I expect or do when winter comes?
FF kind of frightens me since (at least currently) they require so little of what I provide... if it sets out will it go bad?

Don't let it frighten you. Just feed once a day. it turns into a froze lump..that just means you fed to much. My baby's I do use a heated dog bowl.

Quote: yummy..I am butchering tomorrow..My mouth is watering thinking about it..we are smoking chicken this time..I love love smoked chicken.

I miss you Mumsy!