The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[delisha]

Hey all... found a few references to mites on this thread, DE, wood ash, neem oil... wondering if anyone has been using marigold - seeds, flower heads, leaves in any form? Have a friend who wants to try the "feather fixer"/mite control feed, but thinking for the price, if it's the Marigold in the ingredients.... Thoughts?

Some commercial breeders use marigolds in feed to promote vegan feeding..I will not get into my personal feelings of making an omnivore a vegan. It colors the yolk darker and adds lutein to the diet.
The feather fixer has a higher protein and added nutrients. A teaspoon of liver would be one tenth of the cost and healthier to aid in moult with out stopping the moult.

Chickens go threw moult..it is natural. They are suppose to do that. If you force them out of a natural moult you add stress on a tiny little body that needs the slow time to recover for winter. Moult makes them stop laying..or at least slow down. They are chickens and are suppose to do chicken things, including a moult. The commercial hatchery's force them to keep laying and force a moult to stop for those eggs. It is a business and the money is not made if a bird is not laying. A bird is not laying if it is moulting. They replace the birds after two laying cycles. After they are done, you can get those birds in the plastic containers at the store sometimes and more than likely they are sold as feed to pigs.

I do not like the idea of giving the birds drugs or additives in a feed for mites, or anything else for that matter.. unless you have mites and do not know how to get rid of them. IMO bagged feed has enough problems inside it with out adding a ton of other stuff. The price of feed in a bag is rediculas. I recently purchased a bag of chick feed and almost had a heart attack. I have no idea how people can afford to feed bagged feed. I had a $10 coupon for Organic chick feed..and coupons are hard for me to resist. With out it I would not have purchased it. With my coupon a 50 lb bag was $15.00..that is very expensive. Now I have to Dr. it up to give them meat proteins. I am debating fermenting it with grains.

 

[BlueMouse]

I hear you about the cost. I buy whole grains. Once they're all mixed it comes to about $16 per 50lbs. So glad I don't feed much to my free range birds but dreading winter when I have to feed everyone. I'll be down to nine birds by then though, so it won't be so aweful. I'm hoping to eventually find a cheaper source of grains. These aren't even organic. I can't imagine what organic would cost.

 

[nicole63021]

Fun experience today as I clipped the wings on the flock for the first time! Thankfully they all behaved for me, since I was doing it alone. I know not everyone will agree with that decision, but I live in a suburb and the fences are only 3 feet high in the backyard, so to keep the birdies in the yard, flight needs to be limited. For anyone on here that clips, how often do you do it? I figured once a year after moult, and I want to alternate which wing I clip. Not sure if alternating is necessary though. Any thoughts would be great!

 

[lazy gardener]

"I do get that chickens are scratching, pecking, hunting machines ... as is pointed out they are designed to deal with raw/rotten/infested food better than humans. But ... and this is a big BUT for me ... I don't want to introduce salmonella to the flock or unbalance their parasite load, etc., and really only know about these things from a human perspective, so I'm being cautious with the birds. It doesn't help that there are so many industry scare tactics designed to push people (including farmers) toward industrialized poultry products."

When I was researching a RAW diet for my dog... discovered that the rules regarding meat in this country are so tight, that I don't even worry about feeding him fresh pork... trichinosis has virtually been eliminated. There's probably a way to discover how often -if ever- Salmonella or parasites present in beef meats/offal. I'm hazarding a guess that you tend to feed your chickens mostly naturally? If you are feeding them lots of antibiotics on a regular basis (thereby upsetting their natural gut-load of good bacteria) then, I would not recommend feeding RAW. But, if you have healthy, unmedicated chickies, it seems logical they could process a natural food. And it would be fresher than they'd "naturally" find as a left-over hoover (or vulture, if you like).

30% protein sources aren't to sneeze at, that's for sure. If you are worried about flavor, maybe you could separate a hen for a week and make sure she gets a reasonable amount, and test them on your customer, if it would not freak her out. Some people like being in on experiments.

If this customer who has super discerning taste re: her eggs is told that there is a change in the birds diet, she will perceive that the eggs are either better or worse tasting, depending on her perception of whether the diet change is a good or bad change. To truly involve her in the experiment, she would not have to be aware of the change, or she would have to be given a dozen eggs that were marked and half from the old feed source, and half from the new feed source... with only you knowing which eggs were which.

Fun experience today as I clipped the wings on the flock for the first time! Thankfully they all behaved for me, since I was doing it alone. I know not everyone will agree with that decision, but I live in a suburb and the fences are only 3 feet high in the backyard, so to keep the birdies in the yard, flight needs to be limited. For anyone on here that clips, how often do you do it? I figured once a year after moult, and I want to alternate which wing I clip. Not sure if alternating is necessary though. Any thoughts would be great!

I wouldn't feel bad about clipping your girls wings. (Although I did feel bad when I had to clip my girls!) You won't have to re-clip until they go through a molt and grow those flight feathers back. It won't matter which side you do. For convenience sake, I clipped all of my girls right wings. It was easier for me to restrain them and get the right wing into position for the clip. Plus, if you do the same wing on all of the birds, you won't have to wonder which side you did and if it has grown back yet. My girls can still fly high enough to get up into their coop loft without using the ramp, but it has dampened their wanderlust for going over their 40" fence.

 

[armorfirelady]

Sitting by the fire and doing some internet searching and found this
http://store.wildangelcozy.com/water-bucket-cozy/

If this really works it would be awesome. I'm going to some more research and see if I can find any reviews on it. It's just about the same price as heated buckets but no electricity needed

 

[JennyRed]

Lot of good stuff to read here and it will take time, but going to do it.

 

[MargaretYakoda]

Sitting by the fire and doing some internet searching and found this
http://store.wildangelcozy.com/water-bucket-cozy/

If this really works it would be awesome. I'm going to some more research and see if I can find any reviews on it. It's just about the same price as heated buckets but no electricity needed

That bucket cozy would keep warm water warm longer than a bucket without insulation, but without a heat source of some kind it will still freeze up. How long that takes would depend on ambient temperature.

 

[jlynnet]

I have switched from commercial feed to a local mill that mixes their own. I especially like their scratch because it's whole and cracked grains. It's about 10% protein. Now if I can get a good meat protein source, I'll stick with this mix. They usually make it while I watch and wait. When I wet it, it doesn't turn to cement like the commercial stuff. I love a real feed mill!

 

[ki4got]

I think the topic of cooking foods is interesting, and people sure have strong opinions about it. I've looked at some informative charts about the "nutrition" present in various foods in various stages of "cooked" vs. "raw." Things do change ... some values go down a little, some go down a LOT, and some actually go up ... but what strikes me most about the information available about nutrition is that humans have different "needs" than other animals and it is best to not impose human nutritional needs/preferences on other animals. Or vice versa.

I do get that chickens are scratching, pecking, hunting machines ... as is pointed out they are designed to deal with raw/rotten/infested food better than humans. But ... and this is a big BUT for me ... I don't want to introduce salmonella to the flock or unbalance their parasite load, etc., and really only know about these things from a human perspective, so I'm being cautious with the birds. It doesn't help that there are so many industry scare tactics designed to push people (including farmers) toward industrialized poultry products.

Ugh!

I'm looking for an "all purpose" feed solution for my flock that can be supplemented with things like protein and calcium "on demand" ... and this opportunity to get some grass-fed "cow" offal has come along, so I'm really curious about it.

My main coop is inhabited by chickens of all ages and both genders (currently about 150 birds, I think!). Turkeys and ducks are in their own habitats. And ... this is a big consideration ... I want to keep the eggs tasting as delicious as they currently do. I have one customer who is very picky about the flavor of her eggs, and did a taste test of eggs from many sources, and she decided mine are the best tasting ... according to her, all the other eggs have a strange aftertaste ... so I'm paranoid about making changes!

I'm being cautious. Probably overly so!

the thing is, poultry carry salmonella. period. it's part of their system whether you want it to be or not... it's what you do with your own foods when you eat it that will determine the problems...

if you clean the birds properly and don't get any intestinal or fecal matter on the meat, cook your meat and eggs properly, and wash your hands after handling chickens, you won't have any problems with it... the chickens sure don't, and they don't do any of those things LOL. when a chicken gets salmonellosis, it's usually as a secondary infection because something else has thrown off the balance in their own systems. eating raw meat isn't going to do that... the same for dogs. they can eat meat that's past it's 'expiration' or sell-by date for the grocery stores, starting to smell 'off' and worse. again, the stronger stomach acids help by killing anything that can cause them problems, and the shorter gut processes the nutrients faster and eliminates any toxins formed by the dead/dying bacteria (such as botulism toxin) before that can become a problem to their system.

if you mean, by offal, green tripe (aka un-sanitized rumen), among other things, have at it! dogs love it, and it's got lots of beneficial things going for it... for chickens i'd cut it up into strips or cubes. some grind it (beware, it has an odor that may be unpleasant to some LOL). I probably would not do anything with the intestines, unless you wanted to make sausage. LOL but the liver, some use kidneys too, tongue is a good rich meat source not commonly used. even the reproductive parts are useful. also the heart is another good organ meat high in nutrition.

I consider chickens capable of eating anything my dog does. he eats raw food daily. some things I grind to mix ingredients (like tripe with chicken or pork, liver with whatever's on hand, other organ meats and 'leftover' pieces from cleaning a deer, the list goes on. the dog gets organ meats 2-3 times a week as part of his diet. they are both what I consider 'opportunistic omnivores'. they will eat anything and everything that comes along and may be considered edible (by them, not us).

 

[Eggcessive]

I think the topic of cooking foods is interesting, and people sure have strong opinions about it. I've looked at some informative charts about the "nutrition" present in various foods in various stages of "cooked" vs. "raw." Things do change ... some values go down a little, some go down a LOT, and some actually go up ... but what strikes me most about the information available about nutrition is that humans have different "needs" than other animals and it is best to not impose human nutritional needs/preferences on other animals. Or vice versa.

I do get that chickens are scratching, pecking, hunting machines ... as is pointed out they are designed to deal with raw/rotten/infested food better than humans. But ... and this is a big BUT for me ... I don't want to introduce salmonella to the flock or unbalance their parasite load, etc., and really only know about these things from a human perspective, so I'm being cautious with the birds. It doesn't help that there are so many industry scare tactics designed to push people (including farmers) toward industrialized poultry products.

Ugh!

I'm looking for an "all purpose" feed solution for my flock that can be supplemented with things like protein and calcium "on demand" ... and this opportunity to get some grass-fed "cow" offal has come along, so I'm really curious about it. 

My main coop is inhabited by chickens of all ages and both genders (currently about 150 birds, I think!). Turkeys and ducks are in their own habitats. And ... this is a big consideration ... I want to keep the eggs tasting as delicious as they currently do. I have one customer who is very picky about the flavor of her eggs, and did a taste test of eggs from many sources, and she decided mine arethe best tasting ... according to her, all the other eggs have a strange aftertaste ... so I'm paranoid about making changes!

I'm being cautious. Probably overly so! 

Actually in Great Britain it is illegal to feed any meat, cooked or raw, because of the risk of salmonella.