I'm apologizing in advance for this very long post. While I'm waiting for the dough to rise for tomorrow's rolls, I'll try to answer the questions from you all on my necropsy results. I trust your advice and feel I've learned so much from everyone here without judgement!! Thank you!!
Kassaundra-- How many chickens do you have total? 15
Were those the only 3 or 4 affected? No, I had 2 others--1 w/similar symptoms. 1 found dead in coop--was eating that morning, seemed fine.
Did they come from the same source? 2 were same source. 1 was a hatching egg from a friend.
LeslieDJoyce--Did they say what was the problem with fermenting the feed? I'm sure you can't help feeling responsible ... but it sounds to me like you put in every effort to give the birds the best.
Thanks Leslie. No, they didn’t elaborate on the FF. And I didn’t think to ask at the time. I was just stunned by the word “malnourished”.
Lalaland-- I'm wondering about your flock dynamics. So....do you think from your observations that those three were on the lower end of the pecking order? being kept away from the food or choosing to stay away from the flock activitiies or on the fringe? Personally I would not follow their advice on fermented feed, because they are going to go with the traditional methods no matter what - and won't have an understanding of the feed you were providing. all three having underdeveloped ovaries - were these chicks from the same source?
2 of them were definitely on the lower end--youngest in the coop. I’m sure they were chased away from food. Hence the 3 feeding stations in the pen & 2 others in the coop. The BSL was hatched w/3 other mutts last February--never noticed her having any problems w/food or pecking order.
My flock is mixed. 1 of the birds was very docile—a Salmon Faverolle. Just a sweetie! She was so weak I had to cull her before work one morning. Cried while I did it and all the way to work.
2 were from the same source but different breeds—Salmon Fav & a BCM. The other was a mystery bird (hatching egg from a friend) most likely a Black Sex Link.
LeahsMom--
-What kind of feed are you using? Purina Flock Raiser--fed dry & fermented w/garlic, oregano & alfalfa pellets.
-When you ferment, are you doing lacto-fermenting or alcohol fermenting? Used mostly ACV w/mother. The last batch I added some buttermilk.
-Does your ferment ever smell "yeast-like" (or like mold) or does it have a more "sour/tangy" smell? Sour & tangy. When I first started fermenting, I had a batch go bad on me so I do know the difference.
Pozees--Sounds to me like the problem originates from parasites weakening the birds. If they have worms, they are not getting the nutrition that's going down their throats. You have been feeding very well from what you describe.
Thank you Pozees. My co-worker who fosters dogs pointed out that same issue of the nutrition. I hadn’t thought of that. Knowing me as she does, she said she could see it on my face that I was thinking, “I feed my birds good stuff!”
Shan30--Try not to blame yourself for this, your very obviously doing your best to maintain the health of these guys. Hey we made a mistake that cost us every bird we had.
Thank you Shan. Sorry to hear about your flock!
we do use UPACV, garlic and herbs. I used garlic & herbs as top dressing for the FF.
Maybe continue to ferment but also free feed dry so they have a choice and can eat as much as they want at least until they put some weight back on. Dry feed has always been available in the coop.
Also a possibility to consider, did you have these birds from chicks? Did they have any issues as chicks? Yes, have had all of them as chicks. A different chick from same source as 2 sent for necropsy. Acted off—treated for cocci—returned to flock—predator got her a few weeks later.
This basically sounds like failure to thrive and develop which I would think would be either genetic or perhaps the result of an illness early in life. Doubtful that its environmental as it sounds like they have a wonderful place with you.
Thank you! DH told me the same thing.
Maybe check if the lab does fecal floats. I would bet that they are way less expensive than the vet. Sending a sample to the lab next week--$12.50 for the test.
Kassaundra-- How many chickens do you have total? 15
Were those the only 3 or 4 affected? No, I had 2 others--1 w/similar symptoms. 1 found dead in coop--was eating that morning, seemed fine.
Did they come from the same source? 2 were same source. 1 was a hatching egg from a friend.
LeslieDJoyce--Did they say what was the problem with fermenting the feed? I'm sure you can't help feeling responsible ... but it sounds to me like you put in every effort to give the birds the best.
Thanks Leslie. No, they didn’t elaborate on the FF. And I didn’t think to ask at the time. I was just stunned by the word “malnourished”.
Lalaland-- I'm wondering about your flock dynamics. So....do you think from your observations that those three were on the lower end of the pecking order? being kept away from the food or choosing to stay away from the flock activitiies or on the fringe? Personally I would not follow their advice on fermented feed, because they are going to go with the traditional methods no matter what - and won't have an understanding of the feed you were providing. all three having underdeveloped ovaries - were these chicks from the same source?
2 of them were definitely on the lower end--youngest in the coop. I’m sure they were chased away from food. Hence the 3 feeding stations in the pen & 2 others in the coop. The BSL was hatched w/3 other mutts last February--never noticed her having any problems w/food or pecking order.
My flock is mixed. 1 of the birds was very docile—a Salmon Faverolle. Just a sweetie! She was so weak I had to cull her before work one morning. Cried while I did it and all the way to work.
2 were from the same source but different breeds—Salmon Fav & a BCM. The other was a mystery bird (hatching egg from a friend) most likely a Black Sex Link.
LeahsMom--
-What kind of feed are you using? Purina Flock Raiser--fed dry & fermented w/garlic, oregano & alfalfa pellets.
-When you ferment, are you doing lacto-fermenting or alcohol fermenting? Used mostly ACV w/mother. The last batch I added some buttermilk.
-Does your ferment ever smell "yeast-like" (or like mold) or does it have a more "sour/tangy" smell? Sour & tangy. When I first started fermenting, I had a batch go bad on me so I do know the difference.
Pozees--Sounds to me like the problem originates from parasites weakening the birds. If they have worms, they are not getting the nutrition that's going down their throats. You have been feeding very well from what you describe.
Thank you Pozees. My co-worker who fosters dogs pointed out that same issue of the nutrition. I hadn’t thought of that. Knowing me as she does, she said she could see it on my face that I was thinking, “I feed my birds good stuff!”
Shan30--Try not to blame yourself for this, your very obviously doing your best to maintain the health of these guys. Hey we made a mistake that cost us every bird we had.
Thank you Shan. Sorry to hear about your flock!
we do use UPACV, garlic and herbs. I used garlic & herbs as top dressing for the FF.
Maybe continue to ferment but also free feed dry so they have a choice and can eat as much as they want at least until they put some weight back on. Dry feed has always been available in the coop.
Also a possibility to consider, did you have these birds from chicks? Did they have any issues as chicks? Yes, have had all of them as chicks. A different chick from same source as 2 sent for necropsy. Acted off—treated for cocci—returned to flock—predator got her a few weeks later.
This basically sounds like failure to thrive and develop which I would think would be either genetic or perhaps the result of an illness early in life. Doubtful that its environmental as it sounds like they have a wonderful place with you.
Thank you! DH told me the same thing.
Maybe check if the lab does fecal floats. I would bet that they are way less expensive than the vet. Sending a sample to the lab next week--$12.50 for the test.
