The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[SallyinIndiana]

Hi,

I posted a few months ago about my hens--one was getting pecked on her neck and I couldn't figure out what to do. I finally used blu-kote out of desperation, only to find that the culprit was pecking right through the blu-kote (I had thought blu-kote didn't taste good, so I was surprised). So, I upped their protein, and finally separated the pecked bird. What I discovered though, was that she was actually pecking herself. It is only the neck area, on one side from under her beak to the top of her breast (about the size and length of my thumb). Some days it looks normal skin colour, some days it's red and irritated and has specks of blood around feather root sites. They free range, and now have a larger coop than before, (it's 8x6 for 3 hens, plus a 30 sq ft run that they only spend time in when I'm not home to let them roam). The pecking started before the move to the new coop, so I doubt the two are related. We did have a case of lice in the the summer, but it only affected one hen and all were DE dusted and the coop was cleaned. Obviously, the blu-kote won't work for her, and when I asked someone at TSC they suggested a stress water additive vs. pine tar or an anti-peck spray. I've read that maybe she's suffers from anxiety or that in the absence of a rooster she could be plucking herself to mimic a rooster's marking, but I don't know. If it's just an OCD thing that can be left alone, then I will. It just bothers me to see the occasional blood speck (not to mention the overall bald patch) and wonder if she's uncomfortable. Especially, with winter approaching... Otherwise she is fine--lays every other day or better (she's also moulting and obviously the days are getting shorter). She eats a ton, is friendly, hangs out with the other girls and her poop looks fine. She just got a full once over from me again today--no lice, mites, etc. She also has full time access to a dust bath with wood ash and DE. The lady in TSC said that sometimes chickens are just plain strange. Any truth to that? Should I just chalk it up to anxiety and leave it at that?

I'm not sure how large your flock is, but if I had a hen pecking herself to the point of bleeding and she was bug free, I would have stew in a few days.
The other chickens will eventually see the blood and start pecking. Peckers are hard to retrain to nice hens.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Back to the FF, I have used probiotics to jump start it... Just broke open a capes and added it... Works great so far.
Has anyone had fruit flies in their FF? I noticed some hovering around the feeder outside in the coop...

If you are getting fruit flies around it you're producing an alcohol ferment rather than a lacto-ferment. Fruit flies are tel-tail sign of yeasts producing alcohol, unfortunately.

With lacto-fermentation that is in balance, you won't see fruit flies.

by the way, I'm giving the flock lots of tumeric and nutritional yeast. Lots of garlic. Lots of probiotics, with the Pediococcus acidilactici kind of probiotic that is particularly helpful with viruses.

Down to one egg a day, sometimes two. THe funny thing is, one of the eggs is blue and is coming from a hen who is in the middle of a molt. never seen a molting hen laying eggs before, at least that I knew.

Of the 17 remaining chickens, I have 4 pullets about to start laying ( I hope), 7 hens going into their second year, and the rest are older hens, most of whom were still laying before molt this year.

But, one egg a day is not right!!

@lalaland
I'm only getting about 1-2 eggs every other day. The 3 pullets haven't started laying yet.

Was going to ask you also, if you got the full report on the birds and how the rest of the flock is doing...

Quote: I agree w/the others. Any change in feed is going to change poos for awhile. And there is a wide variety that are considered normal.

 

[Leahs Mom]

A "housing question" for those of you that may have experience....

I am wondering if anyone has ever used a dog house, inside a kennel that is fenced on all sides and top, to house birds in the current weather.

Reason for the question is that I want to put the new boys out with the elders, but I don't want them in the same run quite yet and side 2 of my hen shed is currently occupied. I had "Mister" using that kennel with the dog house as his only shelter...and an outdoor roost...earlier this summer. I just don't know it it would be way to cold for just a dog house at this stage in the game.

It isn't as secure as being locked into the hen shed either as something could presumably get under it at night - though it is enclosed by electric netting on 3 sides. There is always the 4th side.

So...
Opinions and experiences, please.

 

[SallyinIndiana]

A "housing question" for those of you that may have experience....

I am wondering if anyone has ever used a dog house, inside a kennel that is fenced on all sides and top, to house birds in the current weather.

Reason for the question is that I want to put the new boys out with the elders, but I don't want them in the same run quite yet and side 2 of my hen shed is currently occupied. I had "Mister" using that kennel with the dog house as his only shelter...and an outdoor roost...earlier this summer. I just don't know it it would be way to cold for just a dog house at this stage in the game.

It isn't as secure as being locked into the hen shed either as something could presumably get under it at night - though it is enclosed by electric netting on 3 sides. There is always the 4th side.

So...
Opinions and experiences, please.

I vote for the chicken liking the dog house. I think Brad who lives a bit south of you uses dog houses for his silkies. We have 2 home made dog house styled coops in our duck / spare rooster run.

 

[hennible]

Thanks for the response Leah's mom... But it smells like bread... Or sour dough starter. Same as always... But the flys are new, the last day or two...

 

[Leahs Mom]

The "bread" or "sour dough" smell is yeast. Alcohol is an output of yeast.

It it smells "sour" or "tangy" more like pickles or sauerkraut without the yeast or bread smell, your output is lactic acid. Lactic acid is an output of lactic acid producing bacteria (LABs).

Now you could also have a Symbiotic Colony of Bacteria and Yeast (AKA - SCOBY) but the yeast is still producing alcohol (like in a kombucha). The goal of lacto-fermentation is to have the LAB in dominance.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote:
Is yours open all night long...the dog styled house, I mean?

They can go in there to get out of the wind but that's about it.

 

[hennible]

The "bread" or "sour dough" smell is yeast.  Alcohol is an output of yeast.

It it smells "sour" or "tangy" more like pickles or sauerkraut without the yeast or bread smell, your output is lactic acid.  Lactic acid is an output of lactic acid producing bacteria (LABs). 

Now you could also have a Symbiotic Colony of Bacteria and Yeast (AKA - SCOBY) but the yeast is still producing alcohol (like in a kombucha).  The goal of lacto-fermentation is to have the LAB in dominance.

Ok thank you very much... I may have to taste it though ....I just read fruit flies are attracted to yeast in general as food not alcohol itself.... I wish you could just smell it for me
Rather not wast it if its still good...

Upon careful sniffing, one batch has a faint sauerkraut sent the other more yeasty... No sour to it (surprise surprise that's the one with the flies) it's a super new batch with some back sloshing ( whatever it's called... ) in it ....anything I can do to save it

 

[Leahs Mom]

You know what? Even if it is on the yeast side, you can still let them finish that batch.

If the yeasts ever end up trying to dominate a batch, I just put it out on the ground where I put other things that they eat and let them finish that off unless it is putrid or moldy. Then that's another story.

Since I want the LABs to be in dominance and don't want yeast perpetuating in a new batch, I just start a new batch if it gets to that point.


My last batch of lacto-fermented was perpetuating since October of 2012 and I just had to start a new one a couple weeks ago because the yeasts kept getting out of balance all of a sudden.

It finally dawned on me that I had just picked up some new grains (I make my own feed) and the grain was probably carrying more yeast and mold spores that I had before. It's been a bit of a battle to get things back on track. I did try remediation on that batch but just couldn't get it back in balance by normal remedial routes so I had to start afresh.

But even through the last few weeks I've still soaked the food at least overnight and continued to feed wet while I'm working with the grains I have.

I'll be glad when the bag I'm using is done. I think that will put a stop to the imbalance. To have gone for 2 WHOLE YEARS without having had it get out of balance...then to have it do what it was doing since the new grains..... well, let's just say that I think the cause is pretty obvious.

 

[jsmith2952]

@ronotti1--no mites or lice (she was never infected), plus I just rechecked again today. and no, the protein isn't helping--though all girls are super shiny right now!

@SallyinIndiana--I only have three hens, thus my continued over-worry...I think if I had more, she'd be stew for sure!

The weird thing is the spot hasn't gotten much bigger since it started in the spring--it looks worse, but only because now there's trace blu-kote involved and because the little feather pins are picked right to the skin, instead of to nubs, in places. If it were lice or mites, it would've spread in 6 months, right? Both other girls are fluffy (other than the moult), she's the only one with the marks. I've never caught her over preening or being pecked by the others and since there's only three of them, and I'm home all day, I'm pretty sure I would've seen something by now. My only guess is that she's doing it at night.

I guess I'll just leave it and see--she's otherwise fine and I can't find anything definitive out there to solve it...

thanks for the feedback.