The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

No poop ball, it is more of a diarrhea kind of problem. Ever since she started growing feathers I noticed her with a messy behind. I had a couple of issues with butts in the brooder and I would just clean them with warm water so they didn't paste up. This bird is always having the runs and it drips down her feathers. She has picked a lot of the feathers around her vent and it is raw and red. I haven't seen any of her droppings even though I have tried to look several times where she is hanging out. I have heard her go though several times and it sounds runny and gassy. She is acting lethargic today after getting mounted, she probably was before that too but I didn't notice. Now she is hanging out by herself on the other end of the pasture away from the chicken tractor and the rest of the flock. I went out to check on her and she is munching on grass but not vigorously like a healthy bird.

If she were mine, I would catch her up and take her in the house for some toilet paper treatment. Not really. I would bring her in and get her butt cleaned up. If it crusts over, she could die simply from not being able to pass the foods that she does eat.

Gently clean the area. You can use warm water to soften it and get it all removed. If you do, be sure to dry the area completely. A blow drier works well for this.

It sounds like you don't have an unreasonable number of birds so the treatment that was suggested (scrambled eggs and buttermilk) I would give to the whole flock. The point of buttermilk, I believe, is active cultures. You can also use yogurt, plain and unsweetened. If you were to scramble up a half dozen eggs and then pour buttermilk into the feed you give them, then stir in the eggs, they would likely scarf it up!

If the Fayoumi is trying to mount and not actually hurting the other birds then I wouldn't worry about him. Sounds like normal flock behavior to me.

Good luck!

for got to answer about the smell
Hello!

We need to figure out what the problem might be before suggesting anything... So I have some questions.

-Is this just a "poop ball" getting stuck in the fluffy feathers around the vent?
-Does it look like runny poo or regular solid poo?
-Is the bird "raw" looking - red and irritated around the vent?
-Is there a strong smell (other than poop) that is unpleasant?

Forgot to answer about smell. I can't speak to the smell of a specific bird but the coop as a whole and area they hang out most doesn't smell too bad to me. I expected a natural earthy smell and that is how it smells to me. Of course the wife and I differ on what "stinks" and what doesn't. :)
 
Does she stand in an upright position...kind of like a penguin?

What color is the dropping...is there any yellow in it?

Yes, she does appear to be standing in an upright position different than the other birds. I'll check on her again and see if I can see any of her droppings.
 
Okay...

If she is in an upright position and standing off by herself and showing some lethargy, it may be one of a couple things.

One possibility is a retained egg (egg binding); the other internal laying in which the egg or eggs have broken inside and she is unable to lay and clear out her system...or egg yolk peritonitis.

If it is internal laying or egg yolk peritonitis...unfortunately culling is the only solution as it does not resolve itself and it can be quite painful over time for the bird. But Egg binding can often be helped!




Now if she isn't standing in that upright position and it is just runny poo and a raw bottom, it may just be a case of gleet beginning which is just a yeast infection.
If you think this might be the problem, I can recommend a treatment that has always worked for everyone that has tried it. However, with this they don't show that "upright" position and lethargy. They may also have a squishy, enlarged crop that doesn't go down by morning...indicating the yeast infection as well.
 
Okay...

If she is in an upright position and standing off by herself and showing some lethargy, it may be one of a couple things.

One possibility is a retained egg (egg binding); the other internal laying in which the egg or eggs have broken inside and she is unable to lay and clear out her system...or egg yolk peritonitis.

If it is internal laying or egg yolk peritonitis...unfortunately culling is the only solution as it does not resolve itself and it can be quite painful over time for the bird. But Egg binding can often be helped!





Now if she isn't standing in that upright position and it is just runny poo and a raw bottom, it may just be a case of gleet beginning which is just a yeast infection.
If you think this might be the problem, I can recommend a treatment that has always worked for everyone that has tried it. However, with this they don't show that "upright" position and lethargy. They may also have a squishy, enlarged crop that doesn't go down by morning...indicating the yeast infection as well.

I just went out and checked on her again and can't find any droppings. After watching her it appears she is constipated. I think she is trying to pass and she can't. She isn't quite eight weeks old yet so not sure if she is old enough to have a retained egg yet. She is a red ranger though and matures in about 12 weeks. From what I have read most people that have tried them for layers start seeing eggs at about 16 weeks.

After watching her more closely, she is in the opposite of an upright position. She definitely stands different than the rest of the flock and walks a little different (slower and rarely runs). She is more slumped over than upright. None of the other flock members appear to have this issue. Maybe she isn't more lethargic than usual. She is walking around the pasture in her normal slow pace. When I went out a minute ago she was over by the coop (maybe she went there to get a drink) and then began walking back to the other side of the pasture in her usual slow pace.
 
What I'm looking for in the dropping is what is on her. What color is it on her back side...



Yes...to young for laying. BUT IF A ROO IS TRYING TO MATE HER SHE'S TOO YOUNG FOR THAT TOO.

Her not feeling well may be because of the roo going after her. Is this an adult roo? He shouldn't be allowed around the 8 week olds if he is mating them. She may have injury from him. She just may have runny poos and not an issue at all - especially if the roo has been trying to mate her. Getting him out of there may just take care of your problem.


Are you able to capture her and take a look at her body to be sure there are no wounds, etc? Also feel her crop to see if it is large and soft/squishy. once you get the younger girls separated from the roo, you can get a better idea if she may have gleet or just some loose stools due to getting out in the grass and not having had time for her digestive system to adjust yet... which may be quite normal. Getting away from the roo will also give you a chance to see if she perks up and begins to act more normal after being away from him for a day or so.


After you're able to examine her, let us know what you are finding. You may find it easier to get her at night when you don't have to chase her all over the place.


Here are a couple of photos showing a bad gleet (yeast infection) for you to have something to reference. These are pretty extreme and it doesn't alway look this bad.





If you think it is gleet, then I have some thoughts for how to treat.














Quote:
After you recognize that you have a sick chicken, you need to do a physical examination to collect more clues about the problem. A chicken physical exam rarely includes taking the temperature or pulse. You just need to look closely at all areas of your chicken's body and behavior.
Catch and hold the sick chicken

The first step in examining your sick chicken is catching it and then holding it so you can start the examination. Because heat stress is often deadly for sick chickens, you want to hold off on catching and holding a sick chicken until a cooler part of the day, if possible.
If it’s an emergency and you must examine a sick chicken during the hottest part of the day, do it quickly and do it in a cool spot, such as in the shade or in an air-conditioned room.
Here are three options for catching your patient:
  • Easy method: Wait until dark to catch and examine a suspect sick chicken. Chickens have poor nighttime vision and don’t move around much in the dark. In dim light, you can simply lift the bird off a perch with little fuss and carry the bird into a well-lit place for the exam.
  • Tame chicken method: You may not have the luxury of waiting until dark to catch a chicken, but that’s okay, because picking up an alert chicken who is in a decent mood isn’t a huge challenge. Chickens who are used to being around people are usually very easy to catch and hold.
    Shoo them gently into the corner of the coop or pen, and catch your suspect bird by reaching both of your hands over her back and holding the wings down to restrain her. Then, move one of your hands down the front of the bird and under the abdomen and pick her up.
    You can carry her that way: one hand on her back and the other under her belly with your fingers between the legs. If you tuck her head loosely under your arm, she’ll feel safer and be calmer.
  • Wild chicken method: You may be in for a backyard rodeo if the chicken you’re trying to catch isn’t used to people or has a bad temper. You can catch ill-mannered roosters or wild hens with a net or a poultry hook, which is a pole about 4 feet long with a handle on one end and a hook on the other. You can purchase nets and poultry hooks from poultry supply companies.
Although a healthy chicken can be carried upside down by the legs without physical harm, a bird is scared by being handled that way. Don’t carry a sick chicken by the legs. It’s too stressful, and the bird can regurgitate food from the crop and inhale it, which can be fatal.
Examine the chicken's head

The less you restrain the bird, the better when you examine the head area. You don’t need to grab the chicken tightly or hold the chicken’s head still to get a good look. Let the chicken stand or sit on a flat, level surface, like a table or workbench, where you don’t need to bend over. Look for these clues of chicken health problems:
  • Swelling of the comb, eyelids, face, or wattles.
  • Scabs anywhere on the head.
  • An eye that is cloudy, goopy, or squinting. You also want to look for an irregularly shaped pupil. The pupil should be round and black.
  • Crusty or runny nostrils.
  • A beak that looks twisted to the side or has cracks. The upper and lower beaks should meet at the tips.
Evaluate the respiratory system and overall body condition

During your examination of the bird’s head, the chicken hopefully settled down a little from being caught and carried. Now that the chicken is standing or sitting relaxed on the table, with only light restraint from you, take a look at how the bird is breathing.
You can hardly notice normal breathing. A chicken with respiratory problems breathes with an open mouth, and the tail may bob up and down with each breath.
If the problem is in the upper part of the respiratory system, such as in the nostrils or windpipe, breathing may become easier as the bird relaxes. If the problem is in the lower part of the respiratory system, such as in the lungs or air sacs, open-mouth breathing and tail bobbing will continue even after the bird relaxes.
Next, feel the keel (breastbone) to get an overall picture of body condition, to determine whether the chicken is thin or fat. Place your palm over the chest and keel of the bird. The keel sticks out from the bird’s chest and is surrounded on each side by the breast muscles. You can score the body condition of your bird by the way the keel and breast muscles feel.
Chicken Body Condition Scoring System
Score Characteristics
0 The edge of the keel is rough, sharp, and prominent. Very little breast muscle can be felt, and the breast on either side of the keel feels hollow or concave. This bird is very thin.
1 The keel is prominent, but doesn't feel sharp. There is some breast muscle, and the breast on either side of the keel feels flat. This bird is thin.
2 The keel is less prominent, and the edge is smoother. The breast muscle is well developed. The breast on either side of the keel is rounded or convex. This bird is in good condition.
3 The keel feels smooth and not very prominent. Feeling the edge of the keel may be difficult through the plump, rounded breast muscles. This is a fat bird.
369932.image0.jpg

Look at skin and feathers

To continue your examination, lift up the feathers to look at the chicken’s skin. Check for external parasites. Do you see any scurrying specks or walking dandruff? Look at the shafts of the feathers. White clumps on the feather shafts may be lice eggs.
Go over the whole bird, stroking the feathers backward, to find areas of feather loss or skin that is reddened, lumpy, scabby, torn, or bruised. The color of a bruise can tell you the age of the injury. A bruise that just happened is red, and changes from purple, to green, to yellow, as it heals over three to five days.
Look at the wings, legs, and feet

The chicken should still be standing or sitting on the table. You can hold her lightly, restraining her only enough to prevent her from jumping off the table. Look at the bird’s posture.
Does she put weight on both legs evenly? Are both wings tucked up on her back, or does one of the wings droop? A bird that is reluctant or unable to put weight on a leg or tuck up a wing may be in pain or have nerve damage.
Lay the chicken down on her side to examine more closely one wing, both legs, and both feet. Turn her over to the other side to examine the other wing. The chicken will usually lie quietly if you drape a light cloth, such as a dish towel, over her head.
Extend each wing to look for swelling, cuts, or bruising. The chicken shouldn’t mind having her wings extended; if she struggles when you extend a wing, the reaction may be a sign of pain.
Check the skin of the legs and feet. The scales should be smooth and straight. Upturned or rough leg scales can be a sign of mite infestation. Pay close attention to the bottoms of the feet; look for scratches, scabs, sores, or swellings.
Check the abdomen and vent

With the bird lying on her side, you can pick up the tail feathers to examine the vent area. Check for reddened, swollen, or torn skin and missing feathers. Look for blood coming from the vent or tissue protruding from it.
Gently feel the bird’s abdomen; the chicken shouldn’t mind you doing so, unless she is in pain. A hen who is laying eggs has a wide, moist vent and a soft, doughy, enlarged abdomen. A firm abdomen and a small, puckered, dry vent are signs that a hen isn’t currently laying eggs.
A bird with diarrhea often has soiled feathers in the vent area. Loose, pasty white or yellow droppings may be stuck to reddened or swollen skin around the vent
.
 
What I'm looking for in the dropping is what is on her. What color is it on her back side...



Yes...to young for laying. BUT IF A ROO IS TRYING TO MATE HER SHE'S TOO YOUNG FOR THAT TOO.

Her not feeling well may be because of the roo going after her. Is this an adult roo? He shouldn't be allowed around the 8 week olds if he is mating them. She may have injury from him. She just may have runny poos and not an issue at all - especially if the roo has been trying to mate her. Getting him out of there may just take care of your problem.


Are you able to capture her and take a look at her body to be sure there are no wounds, etc? Also feel her crop to see if it is large and soft/squishy. once you get the younger girls separated from the roo, you can get a better idea if she may have gleet or just some loose stools due to getting out in the grass and not having had time for her digestive system to adjust yet... which may be quite normal. Getting away from the roo will also give you a chance to see if she perks up and begins to act more normal after being away from him for a day or so.


After you're able to examine her, let us know what you are finding. You may find it easier to get her at night when you don't have to chase her all over the place.


Here are a couple of photos showing a bad gleet (yeast infection) for you to have something to reference. These are pretty extreme and it doesn't alway look this bad.





If you think it is gleet, then I have some thoughts for how to treat.














.



The roo is the same age as her. I just started two months ago with a batch of chicks so they are all the same age. The Fayoumi was a free exotic and apparently they mature very quickly. He is already crowing at 7 weeks. I am not sure if he was actually trying to mount her. That was the first time I saw him do that. He hasn't done it sense and isn't paying much attention to her. He isn't too focused on any particular chicken. He is a bit of a loaner, kind of hangs alone and whomever he walks by he will try and assert his dominance. Given that the roo is so young, is he trying to mount her or is he just being bossy?

Examining her is no problem. She isn't going to run away really fast or anything. I am posting some pics for you and will read through your examination suggestions and give her an exam in a bit. I will post my results.



 
I've always kept my roosters separate from my pullets because they can be so aggressive that they can cause quite a lot of stress as they try domineering everyone. This can delay the onset of laying too.

I would separate him until after your girls start laying.

To bad you don't have an older hen you can toss him in with. She would teach him some manners!
 

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