The Old Folks Home

[vehve]

The international reporting is a bit skewed, on the radio today they kept referring to them as protesters rather than rioters. And they talked about how the American public feels that Obama should be more concerned, according to some analysis he's been talking more about Irak the past week than Ferguson, while the people's interests lie more in the rioting.

 

[Wisher1000]

It is ridiculous that people are calling for "de-militarizing" the police officers and limiting or banning use of military surplus riot gear. What are the officers supposed to use to protect themselves from a hostile crowd that often out numbers them 10 to 1? You all have seen how effective the tear gas and rubber bullets are (not.) What suggestions would you make for better methods? Talking it out? Who would you prefer to have control of the situation? The police, or the crowd?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I have a 55 gallon drum supplying the water for 12 coops. each coop has a shut off so I can isolate it for medication administration.

I use a lot more nipples than i probably should - 1 nipple per 2-3 birds

I have been using them for about 8 months with no failures but did have a couple leak. Most leaks seem to occur on instillation and the blue pvc pipe of the phils is much thinner than the white stuff in usa. Getting the thread to bite on the pipe can be a challenge.

I have mine checked daily to ensure they are working and I put coconut vinegar through the system once a month

the DYI thread has many variations

Overkill on nipples per bird is better than not enough and adds reliability, the downfall is if they leak.
I have 55 gal. drums in two locations. One supplies the breeding complex and on the other side of the property, two drums supply 3 buildings. I'm gearing up to heat and circulate the water for winter. I don't want to go through another winter like the last carrying water through the snow to 8 flocks.
I use horizontal nipples, vertical nipples and drinker cups. I love one type of drinker cups because the don't leak and are easy to clean. Another type of drinker cup is great for chicks because it has a float and water is always present but it's a pain to clean. The nipples tend to leak but the horizontal ones are starting to find favor with me. They are the only ones that won't freeze up if the water supply is heated.

Peaceful assembly is protected by our constitution.

Force is not used against peaceful assemblies.

Once an assembly is no longer peaceful, becomes dangerous, or causes property damage, it is no longer legal.

The next step is issuing orders to disperse, to protect people and property.

That's when the law abiding protesters should leave and all those that are left will have to deal with crowd control methods.

The only other choice is to stand by and watch the crowd do as they please..........

So true. This has been botched at every step. Every day and night, the rules of crowd control are different. The city was in charge the first night, the county for a few nights, the highway patrol for a few nights and now the national guard is on hand only to protect the command center which is a huge parking lot with helicopters, armored vehicles and hundreds of police cars. It also happens to be a shopping center where I first drove a car sitting on my dad's lap almost 60 years ago.
Two nights were overly heavy handed, one was pretty overbearing from a police point of view, 4 were about right and one - the police in riot gear stood by within steps of looted stores and did nothing.

yes officer....

thats plain scary. I did not know that they had such impact

I had always imagined rubber bullets that might hurt upon impact but I had no idea.


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Schools were supposed to open last Thursday.
Three school districts are still closed and Ferguson-Florissant will be closed for at least another week for children's' safety.

Police investigating themselves doesn't give me or anyone else a warm and fuzzy on transparency.

Wisconsin is the only state where police shootings by law must be investigated by an outside entity.

http://hiphopwired.com/2014/08/18/white-father-detaials-son-getting-killed-wisconsin-cop/

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/loc...cle_b1ee0c86-261b-11e4-a6ae-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[ChickenCanoe]

That also seems to be mostly true in this case. I heard on the radio this morning that people from CA and NY are showing up. I have a hard time they are coming to support the families on either side of the debate. I think they are coming more for the looting opportunities.

X2

The international reporting is a bit skewed, on the radio today they kept referring to them as protesters rather than rioters. And they talked about how the American public feels that Obama should be more concerned, according to some analysis he's been talking more about Irak the past week than Ferguson, while the people's interests lie more in the rioting.

This is the most outgoing a president has been in a case like this since Johnson spoke out on the MLK assassination.

It is ridiculous that people are calling for "de-militarizing" the police officers and limiting or banning use of military surplus riot gear. What are the officers supposed to use to protect themselves from a hostile crowd that often out numbers them 10 to 1? You all have seen how effective the tear gas and rubber bullets are (not.) What suggestions would you make for better methods? Talking it out? Who would you prefer to have control of the situation? The police, or the crowd?

I don't know about the crowd control but more transparency on the investigation and an end to sweeping police shootings of the unarmed under the rug would help calm anger.
Get the information out so there's no hint of a cover up. City of St. Louis, put info out immediately. Smaller municipalities, like Ferguson, take weeks or never.

thanks

this is my fave song of Zaz

You've just made me a fan of Zaz.
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There's a new police shooting in St. Louis. Riverview and McLaren, I walked through that intersection on my way home from school from grades 1-8.

Probably a reasonable incident at first glance. Sounds like suicide by cop. That's about 3 miles from Ferguson and was half way between my grade school and my home.

 

[ozexpat]

It is ridiculous that people are calling for "de-militarizing" the police officers and limiting or banning use of military surplus riot gear. What are the officers supposed to use to protect themselves from a hostile crowd that often out numbers them 10 to 1? You all have seen how effective the tear gas and rubber bullets are (not.) What suggestions would you make for better methods? Talking it out? Who would you prefer to have control of the situation? The police, or the crowd?

I am not sure if this is agression and if its directed at me so I will presume both and aplolgise if you are offended by me.

A minister gets shot by a rubber bullet. Not good PR for the police. Your comment "I would think that would be incentive to stay home.". came across (to me atleast) as a little callous when a minister was probably not being unruly and was more than likely trying to discourage violence. She probably did not deserve a rubber bullet and is no doubt incentivised to stay home. Colatteral damage in not acceptable in civil unrest.

I know what a tough job cops have. Cops need the tools to protect in all circumstances.

I also know that the cops should not be routinely pointing military grade weapons at civilians. The weapons need to be pointed to the ground unless you are ready to pull the trigger. Many war vets have spoken out against the cops handling of crowd control in MO.

 

[ozexpat]

You've just made me a fan of Zaz.
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Great

Felix' description of summery is perfect. Great white wine music

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I know I've mentioned this before so I apologize for boring y'all. I believe it's difficult for people not familiar with this area to imagine the setup. St. Louis separated from St. Louis county in the 1800s and the result is 90 different municipalities in the county - some large, some just blocks wide but all contiguous. Most of them have their own police departments, streets departments, etc.. This is expensive to run that many different services in an area this size. The overwhelming way these municipalities meet their financial needs is by traffic tickets. Speed traps and sobriety checkpoints are everywhere.The overwhelming percentage of those pulled over are young black men. This is also an area where perhaps 40% of the black youth are unemployed. Despair leads to random acts of violence.
I'm not an apologist. I'm just telling it like it is.

The 22 year old black man killed by police this afternoon was brandishing a knife. He told the police, "shoot me". They both complied and killed him. I wasn't there but he probably needed psychiatric care. Perhaps a taser and hospitalization were in order. Too late, he's dead.

ETA
I'd also like to add that when I was a child, blacks occupied a tight corridor of midtown and north St. Louis city. They weren't welcome and were run out of everywhere they tried to move. With the civil rights movement, some felt emboldened to move to new areas. Every time they ventured farther north toward or into the county there was trouble. My childhood home was on the edge of St. Louis city, literally feet from the city of Jennings (where the officer in the Brown case started his career). A black family moved onto my street about 4 blocks from my house and another moved into Jennings. On multiple occasions they had crosses burned on their lawns at night. Their houses were defaced with paint. Their children were terrorized walking to school. Why? They were guilty of being black and daring to move to a white neighborhood.

As more black families became emboldened to move to the county, fear set in and there was massive white flight to more rural areas. Every time a white family moved out, a black family moved in. North county was 100% white in 1970. It's over 50% black now.
My brother lived in a nice lake community just about 2 miles from where I lived now. A black family moved in. He and all his neighbors panicked. 30% of the houses went up for sale immediately. Housing prices dropped precipitously. He complained that he had to sell for half of what he paid. He moved to another part of the state. After everything settled down and the neighborhood became more stable, housing prices rose again. 10 years after he fled, his house was valued at 40% more than what he bought it for and 3 times what he sold it for.

Did I mention that everyone in my family except my oldest sister and myself are/were extremely prejudiced?

 

[Wisher1000]

My reply was not intended to be aggressive, toward you, Oz, (you know I love you) or toward anyone else.

I am, however, extremely frustrated, as are most law enforcement professionals right now.

I have kept my responses (almost) completely to myself, patiently waiting for the truth to come to light. It will come to light, hopefully, and then I will feel entitled to voice my opinion as to who was right and who was wrong in what they did. I have learned from many years of dealing with these type situations that you never have the whole picture until you talk to everyone involved and....and look at the physical evidence to see which accounts are supported by that. That process takes time, if it is to be done right. How can an investigation be conducted effectively if each bit of information is released to the public before it is corroborated or determined to be reliable information?

I will go back to standing by quietly waiting on the truth...... in the meantime, here is an interesting read. A letter from one police commander to another.

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/lifeline-training/open-letter-captain-ronald-s-j

 

[ozexpat]

My reply was not intended to be aggressive, toward you, Oz, (you know I love you) or toward anyone else.

I am, however, extremely frustrated, as are most law enforcement professionals right now.

I have kept my responses (almost) completely to myself, patiently waiting for the truth to come to light. It will come to light, hopefully, and then I will feel entitled to voice my opinion as to who was right and who was wrong in what they did. I have learned from many years of dealing with these type situations that you never have the whole picture until you talk to everyone involved and....and look at the physical evidence to see which accounts are supported by that. That process takes time, if it is to be done right. How can an investigation be conducted effectively if each bit of information is released to the public before it is corroborated or determined to be reliable information?

I will go back to standing by quietly waiting on the truth...... in the meantime, here is an interesting read. A letter from one police commander to another.

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/lifeline-training/open-letter-captain-ronald-s-j

I love you too Wisher

I could not agree more regarding investigations needing to be complete but the public need transparency in the investigation so that they can firstly see that it is progressing and also so they can see its progressing honestly

 

[dsqard]

Wisher that is a very interesting letter and I completely agree with you that things need to cool down and the entire incident must be investigated for the truth to come to the surface. We all know there are two sides to a story and usually the truth is somewhere in the middle. In the mean time, the "news" in it's ever loving search for ratings over truth is reporting on everything whether they have fact checked it or not which usually feeds the flames in this type of situation. I am not saying we shouldn't have freedom of the press. I am saying that it ought to be a law that news agencies have to verify their information before they report on it. In some ways, the "news" can be just as negligent as the involved parties at times. What needs to happen the most right now is for everyone to take a deep breath, calm down, and let the truth come out no matter how "ugly" it may be for one side or the other or both.