The Olive-Egger thread!

[LaSombra]

really, how is breeding an olive egger somehow going to make a certain breed go extinct? It's no worse than all the mutts people get in their pen who are not "breeding" at all (the majority of chicken owners) but have a mixed flock and like to hatch a few eggs here and there... That's what I've got.

 

[Wynette]

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That's exactly what I meant.

 

[Resolution]

Bamboo Saddle Dragger
I'm sorry that I came off as such a condescending jerk. I really do not sit on high -but we all write from where we sit and just like all of you sometimes I'm writing in an environment that includes lots of coffee and I'm snuggling into BYC during down times. I wrote to Speckled Hen in a snit really regret now and she eloquently pointed out what a condescending jerk I can be or at least read to be. I'm so sorry for that and I'll own it.

African Pternistes Junglefowl

You know I sit in my office where my real life begins- and sometimes I scribble on pages and I share those scribbles with you.
People that work with and for me will sigh and shake their heads because they know all about laborious, didactic missives I fire off occasionally

I will have to stay firm on one point and that is stewardship. One day, someone you don't know, when you're a little bitty toothless wisp in a rocking chair in diapers- they'll be stewards of your New Heritage oliven egg breeds- the very same ones you are so carefully selecting for now.
You don't have to agree with me, that much is certain- and please don't think that people that hyper type useless facts as second nature feel that you are anything less than wonderful- even if they might come off as such. We all have our sparks. Sorry you had to encounter mine. It was not my intention to deviate from the thread or irritate you. When I wrote that it's unethical to produce a tufted rumpless oliven egger because of the serious threat of that stock ending up in conservation stock genetic pools -perhaps I was a bit too harsh or judgmental. I've already written it and am not a waffler. The poultier that is selecting towards that phenotypical morph- that's her deal. Nevertheless it makes me nervous. It may not be any other person's candle to burn but obviously conservation of the archaic stock is very important to me. I've dedicated a good deal of my adult life to it.
And let me make this clear- it does impact conservation efforts and OFTEN. Heavy bodied green egg producers are always popping up in conservation flocks.

I had a different objective writing here, about sharing some of the chemical and structural mechanisms of egg shell colour as it relates to the development and refinement of the oliven egg. That impulse has left me now. What you experienced was my wading in with professor goggles on laying out certain ethical considerations- principles because I needed to make certain unambiguous considerations clear- so that in my encouragement of selective breeding towards an oliven egg class of breeds- I would not be subsequently painted with the tar brush for anything that went wrong. Rather than discourage what is going to happen anyway ( people producing oliven eggers), I feel that's more useful to produce solutions -throw light on potential problems before they happen- and do what I can to help organize an effort to minimize any collateral damage. If any parental breeds were genetically contaminated in the dispersal and unwitting genetic introgression- of the oliven eggers- blame designation is shot around in rapid fire -I know of this personally as this happened with Marans a decade ago. Some jackalope attributed it to me and my reputation is still kicked around for genetic contamination of that important breed- and this is something I played no part in. Some curious backyard hobbyist playing around most certainly did cross Marans with North American Araucana -and the progeny of that stock has most certainly contaminated many lines of Marans AND Standard NA Araucana strains. This has been observed with frequent emergence of rumpless Marans- and Oliven egg producing Standard NA Araucana. No one here is responsible for this. I get that. It happened none the less and no one could be held accountable save for the conservation poultiers that import stock and disperse rare strains within a certain stratum of our community of chicken adorers. Our foundation had nothing to do with crossbreeding any Marans or NA Araucana and yet I was personally blamed for the travesty-right here on this forum I might add. It was unethical for the hobbyist to dump that crossed stock into the stream because someone down the creek did purchase that stock- they did invest in that stock and were cheated- left disappointed and demanding answers.

My methodology of encouragement has changed - I'm eager to lay out what my principles are before "contributing" ideas towards helping individual selectionists meet certain objectives. My delivery still sucks and no one asked for my ten cents anyway! Not trying to justify any insensitivity but I am attempting to put it into the correct context.

I showed them my notebook
The underside of my soul
Released in scribbles on pages
My little boy smiled and held my hand

I knew that he would see
For he dreams of touching beauty, too
They smiled as they read along
Because they know there has to be more than the work day

We're painting hen houses
We're just painting arks for a while
I'm home to this canvas
Coming to life

I write in my notebook
With feeling that take me by surprise
And thoughts that I don't know I have

They're hidden by useless facts
That I've compiled at the office where I work
Where there is no time for feeling anything

You see, I just work there
To finance my real life
That begins with scribbles on pages
And thoughts of how and when

Museums on Sundays
Whenever we, can we can all go
And stay there for hours
Feeding our spirits

And beauty is still free
And beauty is not exclusive
And beauty is ours to touch and to know
To touch and know

Don't you think there's more, I really have to know?
Don't you think there's more to life?

"life" meaning, isn't life in all it's miraculous diversity grand!​

 

[Resolution]

Quote:
I need you to edit what comes out of my brain!

Quote:
Sometimes a tragedy or something unfortunate occurs and a flock of "mutts" has to leave the hands of their beloved owner and ends up at some farm that raises birds for sale.
It's very difficult to control the impulses of self-selection of mates in a group. So the lovely cross that belonged to the nice Lady in Kent was passed down to a first time chicken enthusiast in the Berkshires who quickly realised chickens were not here thing. She donates them to a man in Litchfield who has wheeled and dealed poultry for more than a decade. It just happens and all too often that someone unethical looks at a bird and says "that looks like a Marans to me." thinking -"They're only bloody chickens for God's sake-this is the Amerikun free market system- screw em if they don't know the difference and freedom isn't free!"

I'm not saying don't experiment- I'm just suggesting that those that do go about this create some sort of breed registry.
Every other farm is a smorgasbord of crossed up happiness -chooks with personalities and unique colours.
I'm reacting to a selectionist intentionally producing an oliven egger that looks identical to a stewardship breed that has generations of dedicated work and selection tied to its pedigree.

 

[Kansaseq]

I"ve shown them before, but aren't they pretty? Olive eggs from hatchery EE years ago.

 

[NellaBean]

If you want to complain about people screwing up the gene pools, go after that hatcheries selling things AS PUREBREDS, that are at best a poor representation of the breed and at worst a cross. Their massive breeding/selling of "purebred" birds does much more to damage these breeds than a handful of people purposely creating and purposely marketing as such, a mixed breed bird.

I love my mutts! That's what I call them, MUTTS. That's what I market them as, MUTTS.

 

[Kansaseq]

My only current olive egger, (EE x Barnie) and he's a BOY! At least he's eye candy for me

 

[kathyinmo]

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haha ..... I hatched one of those! YES, I have one!

Resolution,
I thoroughly enjoy reading your ramblings. You have so much to share. Your knowledge is incredible, even if your presentation is not as eloquent sometimes.

 

[Resolution]

Quote:
Actually at this stage, from my perspective, the egg shell colour is unappealing. They look like eggs that have been left in the egg box too long and have gone rotten. That said, there is quite a lot to work with. The depth of colour is hard to beat. The consistency of the hue is nothing short of beautiful. It just hasn't been selected to the level that it might otherwise be. You asked. I'm being candid. We all have these conversations about marans, barnesvelder, and araucanian eggs- selectionists do at any rate.

I've been warned that the demographic here does not appreciate or want to hear my opinion or at least my "slant" on topics. I tend to disagree because I never underestimate the intelligence or intellectual curiosity of forum members. This is not intended as a condescending missive.

To each her and his own. Oliven eggs are awesome as are glowing white eggs, dark russet eggs, bright blue eggs, pink taupe, tea yellow- they all make for a unique basket and if you are selling eggs to ameliorate your income- and contribute to your local communities food basket- good for you!
If you get smart about it- disciplined about it you can end up selling your new heirloom strains. I assumed that is what this exciting new group was up to.

TO get to the glowing green egg you'll need to select for specific traits even with the best genetics. This is true of all the specialty breeds we keep for egg colour.

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I'm not complaining. I agree with you about some of the hatchery stock. Where do you suppose the hatcheries buy their stock from?
It's a free market economy. The hatcheries are encouraging their egg producers (from which they incubate and sell chicks) Go ahead and produce your hardy strains consistently and we will market your purebred "mutts". Does it make any of less accountable where they end up?

I don't see mutts, but rather valuable genetic material. I hope in my lifetime to see breed registries created by backyard hobbyists who have finally realised that it's always been backyard hobbyists that have produced the best strains- the best breeds- the best heirlooms .

 

[Resolution]

Kansaseq

My only current olive egger, (EE x Barnie) and he's a BOY! At least he's eye candy for me

Tequila is a most gorgeous sire for a founder flock! Now to just select for legs the same colour as those eggs!​