The owner of the feed store says that....
- Thread starter BettyR
- Start date
FWIW
"Hens require
higher levels of minerals (calcium for eggshell
formation) than chicks. Layer feed fed to chicks
will reduce growth and place unnecessary stress
on chicks."By Dr. Tom W. Smith, Jr., Ph.D., Emeritus Professor of Poultry Science, Mississippi State University
Regards, Woody
"Hens require
higher levels of minerals (calcium for eggshell
formation) than chicks. Layer feed fed to chicks
will reduce growth and place unnecessary stress
on chicks."By Dr. Tom W. Smith, Jr., Ph.D., Emeritus Professor of Poultry Science, Mississippi State University
Regards, Woody
Quote:
Probably true, but I almost always have birds that are not laying yet and in with the adult birds or extra roosters. I even tried mixing scratch with the raiser and they just ate more food.
I wonder a lot about the feeds and what the birds will chose to eat.
If given a bowl of layer and a bowl of starter or flock raiser, they will eat the starter/flock raiser. So you would think they want the higher protein.
If given a bowl of starter/raiser and a bowl of scratch, they will eat the scratch. Much lower in protein.
If given any of the above or fresh bugs, they will take the bugs.
Probably true, but I almost always have birds that are not laying yet and in with the adult birds or extra roosters. I even tried mixing scratch with the raiser and they just ate more food.
I wonder a lot about the feeds and what the birds will chose to eat.
If given a bowl of layer and a bowl of starter or flock raiser, they will eat the starter/flock raiser. So you would think they want the higher protein.
If given a bowl of starter/raiser and a bowl of scratch, they will eat the scratch. Much lower in protein.
If given any of the above or fresh bugs, they will take the bugs.
i free range no fences only a coop for them to all go in at night (which some dont use) and my chicks eat layer mesh like it going out of style and my birds are very healthy and energetic ive been doing this for 4yrs straight now also had some when i was a kid but my parents took care of those and we always had alot and just let then hens hatch out there own chicks whenever they wanted they where like wild pets min care but still came running and some bantys would roost on my shoulders
Quote:
It can cause kidney problems and even death!! (look it up)
It can cause kidney problems and even death!! (look it up)
Last edited:
- Dec 5, 2010
- 821
- 48
- 133
There are good reasons why people differ on things like medication in the feed. That's because it's perfectly possible to raise chicks without medication, if you have the right setup and aren't raising many (and manage against coccidiosis). So opinion differs quite rightly on that.
But with calcium it's a slightly different story.
Too much calcium can harm the kidneys, but doesn't always do this. That's why they can eat some layer feed without always getting into trouble.
However what it will do more often is cause a higher than normal incidence of soft shelled egg laying when pullets reach point of lay.
This is because too much calcium early on interferes with the bird's ability to absorb calcium and make shell. Pullets reared on too much calcium are far more likely to have soft shelled eggs and hence issues like EYP than other birds. Their calcium absorption system becomes saturated.
I haven't got the citations close at hand, but these facts come from a variety of journal articles and home experience. I'm not trying to say I'm an expert as I'm not. But I have seen long term problems from chicks that ate too much calcium over several weeks and were unable to form proper eggshells. That's why I'm adding to this thread in this way.
There are a lot of issues with chickens that come down to personal judgement. I'm also a big believer in trying new things and not always listening to industrial science (which is so weighted in favour of big business and profit). But with calcium, I feel it's a different kettle of fish...
Some breeds can survive quite well with all chickens and hens eating the same feed. But this isn't because they're eating 4% calcium layer. The birds that do well all on the same feeds are the low-volume layers like game birds, on a varied diet including insects and grain. They don't do quite so well on huge amounts of calcium but they can do well on corn etc. They don't lay enough eggs to warrant the extra calcium and it does end up stressing the birds.
Today's layers need the extra calcium because they're laying so many more eggs than their wild counterparts. However the same amount of calcium that can produce these hundreds of eggshells per year can harm chicks. It's a result of modern breeding, and it's real. You may not see damage to kidneys but onset of lay will often show up the damage in terms of thin or missing eggshells.
I don't mean to offend anyone by coming down hard on one side or the other. It's just that in this case I've seen results first hand, and read the reasons why, and found they make good sense. It's not a simple cause-effect issue but there are noticeable effects if the chicks have no other feed besides layer feed. If they do have a variety they can turn out okay because they've 'watered down' the calcium level by eating grains etc.
Erica
But with calcium it's a slightly different story.
Too much calcium can harm the kidneys, but doesn't always do this. That's why they can eat some layer feed without always getting into trouble.
However what it will do more often is cause a higher than normal incidence of soft shelled egg laying when pullets reach point of lay.
This is because too much calcium early on interferes with the bird's ability to absorb calcium and make shell. Pullets reared on too much calcium are far more likely to have soft shelled eggs and hence issues like EYP than other birds. Their calcium absorption system becomes saturated.
I haven't got the citations close at hand, but these facts come from a variety of journal articles and home experience. I'm not trying to say I'm an expert as I'm not. But I have seen long term problems from chicks that ate too much calcium over several weeks and were unable to form proper eggshells. That's why I'm adding to this thread in this way.
There are a lot of issues with chickens that come down to personal judgement. I'm also a big believer in trying new things and not always listening to industrial science (which is so weighted in favour of big business and profit). But with calcium, I feel it's a different kettle of fish...
Some breeds can survive quite well with all chickens and hens eating the same feed. But this isn't because they're eating 4% calcium layer. The birds that do well all on the same feeds are the low-volume layers like game birds, on a varied diet including insects and grain. They don't do quite so well on huge amounts of calcium but they can do well on corn etc. They don't lay enough eggs to warrant the extra calcium and it does end up stressing the birds.
Today's layers need the extra calcium because they're laying so many more eggs than their wild counterparts. However the same amount of calcium that can produce these hundreds of eggshells per year can harm chicks. It's a result of modern breeding, and it's real. You may not see damage to kidneys but onset of lay will often show up the damage in terms of thin or missing eggshells.
I don't mean to offend anyone by coming down hard on one side or the other. It's just that in this case I've seen results first hand, and read the reasons why, and found they make good sense. It's not a simple cause-effect issue but there are noticeable effects if the chicks have no other feed besides layer feed. If they do have a variety they can turn out okay because they've 'watered down' the calcium level by eating grains etc.
Erica
This posting has gone viral.
Everyone raises their chickens differently.
If you free range/pasture most of the day this will dramatically change nutritional needs. Especially depending on the quality of range.
Chickens will initially use the live food(insects, arthropods, worms, etc.) then the greenery and seeds. Given enough space and quality forage, much of their need can be satisfied.
If on the other hand they're penned most of the time, which is the case with most people, then the protein, calcium, etc. recommended %s need attention.
A neighbor called a couple weeks ago wanting to buy pullets. He said his birds quit laying. 30 birds were giving him 4 to 6 eggs a day. I asked what kind he had, how old they were and what he was feeding.
He said they were RIR about a year old and he fed them corn ONLY.
I told him they were starving and wouldn't sell him chickens until he switched to a complete feed.
I think I straightened him out.
I've since sold him POL Australorps and Brahmas. Then I sold him Ameracauna and Welsummer chicks. He's very happy now.
My birds produce an average 8.5 eggs per 10 hens from around 12 different breeds year round unless moulting. Granted they are for the most part high production breeds that are in my signature.
Everyone raises their chickens differently.
If you free range/pasture most of the day this will dramatically change nutritional needs. Especially depending on the quality of range.
Chickens will initially use the live food(insects, arthropods, worms, etc.) then the greenery and seeds. Given enough space and quality forage, much of their need can be satisfied.
If on the other hand they're penned most of the time, which is the case with most people, then the protein, calcium, etc. recommended %s need attention.
A neighbor called a couple weeks ago wanting to buy pullets. He said his birds quit laying. 30 birds were giving him 4 to 6 eggs a day. I asked what kind he had, how old they were and what he was feeding.
He said they were RIR about a year old and he fed them corn ONLY.
I told him they were starving and wouldn't sell him chickens until he switched to a complete feed.
I think I straightened him out.
I've since sold him POL Australorps and Brahmas. Then I sold him Ameracauna and Welsummer chicks. He's very happy now.
My birds produce an average 8.5 eggs per 10 hens from around 12 different breeds year round unless moulting. Granted they are for the most part high production breeds that are in my signature.
Last edited:
Quote:
I will agree with you 100%. Don't come running to me asking why your birds quit laying when you don't feed anything but free range, crack corn or some diddle feed the feed store guy told you would be just fine! 2 years at tops and your hens are done in. No wonder people process their hens early for not laying anymore than they do. I have 7 and 8 year old hens that are laying quite well for their age.
I will agree with you 100%. Don't come running to me asking why your birds quit laying when you don't feed anything but free range, crack corn or some diddle feed the feed store guy told you would be just fine! 2 years at tops and your hens are done in. No wonder people process their hens early for not laying anymore than they do. I have 7 and 8 year old hens that are laying quite well for their age.
Quote:
Probably true, but I almost always have birds that are not laying yet and in with the adult birds or extra roosters. I even tried mixing scratch with the raiser and they just ate more food.
I wonder a lot about the feeds and what the birds will chose to eat.
If given a bowl of layer and a bowl of starter or flock raiser, they will eat the starter/flock raiser. So you would think they want the higher protein.
If given a bowl of starter/raiser and a bowl of scratch, they will eat the scratch. Much lower in protein.
If given any of the above or fresh bugs, they will take the bugs.
Birds would rather eat grain, like corn , not the man made pellets and etc, but the man made is better because every thing they need is blend into the feed.
Probably true, but I almost always have birds that are not laying yet and in with the adult birds or extra roosters. I even tried mixing scratch with the raiser and they just ate more food.
I wonder a lot about the feeds and what the birds will chose to eat.
If given a bowl of layer and a bowl of starter or flock raiser, they will eat the starter/flock raiser. So you would think they want the higher protein.
If given a bowl of starter/raiser and a bowl of scratch, they will eat the scratch. Much lower in protein.
If given any of the above or fresh bugs, they will take the bugs.
Birds would rather eat grain, like corn , not the man made pellets and etc, but the man made is better because every thing they need is blend into the feed.
Similar threads
New posts New threads Active threads
-
Latest threads
-
GQF Incubator 4 to 5 Degrees Cooler At Bottom?!
- Started by ChickyPants
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
-
Bullying after losing a member of the flock- Started by Ccort
- Replies: 3
-
-
Threads with more replies in the last 15 days
-
