The Pita Pinta Asturiana

[Ballerina Bird]

I posted this in the N CA thread but thought that I would share here, too. I'm still waiting to hear back about the hen that died in the nest box.

I received the report on 2 of the 3 Pita Pinta hens that died 10 days ago. I haven't had time to look up everything and make sense of it all but they were 2 very sick girls. I'm not sure what I can do to prevent this happening to any of the other birds. Maybe someone on here can interpret it for me. Here is a link to the report.

file:///C:/Users/davalerga/Downloads/D1507947_Final_1.PDF

Here is the short version:

Hen A - Pericarditis, mutifocal, nodular, lymphocytic, chronic
- Nephritis, multifocal, interstitial, lymphocytic, chronic
- Peritonitis, lymphoplasmacytic and histiocytic, moderate, multifocal, chronic

Hen B - Oviduct, adenocarcinoma, severe, widespread
- Lungs, metastatic adenocarcinoma, multifocal, early stage
- Salpingitis/yolk peritonitis, moderate, chronic, pleocellular

In the case summary, Davis noted that both hens had a large, cystic, persistent right oviduct. They said that it is unusual to see persistent right oviducts that are this large and theorized that this might be a breed-related characteristic. They did say that there was no evidence of Marek's disease in peripheral nerves and brain. And the test for avian flu was negative.

Thanks so much for this, Debi. It seems like it is mainly cancer, esp in Hen B? (Though also peritonitis.) I haven't looked everything up either, though, so I could be wrong about this. Could I ask how old these hens were when they died, so we can have a sense of when these problems might start to manifest? Again, I am so sorry you lost your hens.

 

[PetRock]

They were just under 2 yr old so not old at all. It will be discouraging if it is something common to this breed.

 

[ronott1]

They were just under 2 yr old so not old at all. It will be discouraging if it is something common to this breed.

I don't think it will be. A Cyst is not cancer and they did not find mareks so they are resistant to it. There is a different type of reproductive cancer that has been around for several years but it was not that.

We will keep watching for sure.

 

[Henthused]

They were just under 2 yr old so not old at all. It will be discouraging if it is something common to this breed.

Debi, I am so far out of my league discussing this, but I went to http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/79/8/1075.full.pdf
This article seems to define large, cystic, persistent right oviducts in chickens as an inbreeding consequence. I certainly don't understand everything I read about genetics, but I looked up and read several articles, and it seems they all refer to inbreeding as a possible cause.

I also read that there is not much difference between inbreeding and line breeding. Each leads back to a common progenitor. So, I wonder if outcrossing is the only way to get rid of some inbreeding and linebreeding genetic defects. And, I'm not sure what outcrossing means, either.
Ron, could you weigh in?

 

[ronott1]

Debi, I am so far out of my league discussing this, but I went to http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/79/8/1075.full.pdf
This article seems to define large, cystic, persistent right oviducts in chickens as an inbreeding consequence. I certainly don't understand everything I read about genetics, but I looked up and read several articles, and it seems they all refer to inbreeding as a possible cause.

I also read that there is not much difference between inbreeding and line breeding. Each leads back to a common progenitor. So, I wonder if outcrossing is the only way to get rid of some inbreeding and linebreeding genetic defects. And, I'm not sure what outcrossing means, either.
Ron, could you weigh in?

The article says that having an active right oviduct is a recessive trait. inbreeding or line breeding will keep recessive traits--like yellow legs--that you want but also some that you do not want.

Since it is inherited, it can be removed from the breed line by selecting for hens that do not have the extra oviduct.(hens are supposed to have a left and not a right). The problem is figuring out which hens have the extra ovary. It said that sometimes you can see two vent openings! but not always.

getting another line of Pita Pintas would likely not solve this. The hens we are discussing are the second generation from the import and it is too soon to have inbreeding problems. The genes must have come from Spain, which makes sense because they were saved there in the 1980s. It is also possible that a breed, like barred rocks, were used to make the Pita Pinta and that line of Barred rocks was one with the right ovary genes (Australorps, leghorns and fayoumi chickens are known to have this among others).

Great discussion! Thanks so much for using a scientific article too.

 

[Henthused]

The article says that having an active right oviduct is a recessive trait. inbreeding or line breeding will keep recessive traits--like yellow legs--that you want but also some that you do not want.

Since it is inherited, it can be removed from the breed line by selecting for hens that do not have the extra oviduct.(hens are supposed to have a left and not a right). The problem is figuring out which hens have the extra ovary. It said that sometimes you can see two vent openings! but not always.

getting another line of Pita Pintas would likely not solve this. The hens we are discussing are the second generation from the import and it is too soon to have inbreeding problems. The genes must have come from Spain, which makes sense because they were saved there in the 1980s. It is also possible that a breed, like barred rocks, were used to make the Pita Pinta and that line of Barred rocks was one with the right ovary genes (Australorps, leghorns and fayoumi chickens are known to have this among others).

Great discussion! Thanks so much for using a scientific article too.

Ron thank you so much for the quick reply. I have 1 roo and 2 Pita Pinta Pullets that hatched from Debi's eggs. Should I allow the brother to breed with the sisters when the time comes?
I am into my family genealogy and tree, so I know that everything should be backed by facts and additional information if possible. I love to research, even though most of the time, this genetics info is over my head.
I do hope that Debi does not have any more problems anytime soon. This must have been hard for her.

 

[ronott1]

Ron thank you so much for the quick reply. I have 1 roo and 2 Pita Pinta Pullets that hatched from Debi's eggs. Should I allow the brother to breed with the sisters when the time comes?
I am into my family genealogy and tree, so I know that everything should be backed by facts and additional information if possible. I love to research, even though most of the time, this genetics info is over my head.
I do hope that Debi does not have any more problems anytime soon. This must have been hard for her.

Yes, you will not introduce inbreeding problems for a couple of generations or so. You need to start line breeding, which would be keeping a second or third pen.




You can also work with partners--ie get hatching eggs from one of us every three years or so. Normally, inbreeding problems are seen with lack of vigor at hatch and etc. We would not see extra ovaries first.

 

[Henthused]

Yes, you will not introduce inbreeding problems for a couple of generations or so. You need to start line breeding, which would be keeping a second or third pen.




You can also work with partners--ie get hatching eggs from one of us every three years or so. Normally, inbreeding problems are seen with lack of vigor at hatch and etc. We would not see extra ovaries first.

Very helpful, Ron. Thank you! I will save this diagram and info for future reference. Wow, you are a wealth of knowledge and help for all of us.

 

[PetRock]

The article says that having an active right oviduct is a recessive trait. inbreeding or line breeding will keep recessive traits--like yellow legs--that you want but also some that you do not want.

Since it is inherited, it can be removed from the breed line by selecting for hens that do not have the extra oviduct.(hens are supposed to have a left and not a right). The problem is figuring out which hens have the extra ovary. It said that sometimes you can see two vent openings! but not always.

getting another line of Pita Pintas would likely not solve this. The hens we are discussing are the second generation from the import and it is too soon to have inbreeding problems. The genes must have come from Spain, which makes sense because they were saved there in the 1980s. It is also possible that a breed, like barred rocks, were used to make the Pita Pinta and that line of Barred rocks was one with the right ovary genes (Australorps, leghorns and fayoumi chickens are known to have this among others).

Great discussion! Thanks so much for using a scientific article too.

The hens that died were my first generation hatched from eggs from Megan. I wish that I knew the name of the breeder that she got her eggs from so I could contact them for information. Even in Spain, the gene pool for this breed is small in comparison to other popular breeds.


That article was very interesting. How would you determine if a hen has the extra oviduct? None of my hens or pullets have 2 vent openings. Both of the hens in this case had very large right oviducts. Both measured 10 cm in diameter which is almost 4 in. I would have loved to see pics of them. We are processing extra Pita Pinta cockerels in a couple weeks. We may also process the 2 pullets that have crooked keels as well as a couple that have other defects. I'll have to check to see if they have the extra oviduct.

 

[caychris]

Yeah I got birds from Ron for this very reason I know they are related birds but if this is a recessive trait we should be able to cull it out eventually

We would just need a way to verify for it.