The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Yard full o' rocks]

Yes. The Fred group are leg banded and once the XW group get a little more size they'll be banded as well. The cockerels from both groups are together in their own pen and at this stage there is no mistaking the groups even without the bands simply due to sheer size. The long term plan is to toe punch by pen and wing band the offspring at hatch and then use color coded leg bands to further differentiate the birds later on. I sense the need for a larger spreadsheet.. lol.

It does get a little complicated, BUT, when you only hold a few pullets back each year, its not too bad. And males are few and far between (not many needed)

Don't let it overwhelm ya.....its a lot of fun and just a little work on the backside

 

[Dahlisgrams]

If I had a bunch from Jeremy directly and a bunch from me, yes, I'd keep them separate. Yes, they are the "same" but not likely to be the "same". Just enough, slightly different breeding groups and that is a very good thing. They've been apart of almost 4 years now and that too is a good thing. They are accumulating slightly different gene emphasis, from a common parent, approximately 5 generations back.

There would be GREAT value in marking them as separate families.

That's what I was thinking too. Different individuals selecting for perhaps slightly different traits.. The two groups strike me as fairly unique to each other. It will be interesting to see them side by side as adults.

I chose eggs and chicks over started birds mostly because I wanted to have a hand in raising them. I wanted to see how they compare to their siblings in shape, size disposition etc. Somehow I feel closer to the process. It is probably easier and even preferable to begin with started birds but then I've never been known to do anything the easy way. lol

 

[Fred's Hens]

Yes, although not precise, perhaps one way of looking at this is that perhaps, perhaps they all share a great, great grandsire. But now, 5 generations later, they might be thought of as 3rd cousins, 4 times removed or something silly like that. I'd say it is ideal for doing the best over the best.

Like you, I enjoy the raising process. It seems I know them, see them and notice things about them better.

 

[Fred's Hens]

We had only a short window of time when it wasn't raining, this past week. I didn't get the photo shots that I might have liked, but got enough to share some birds, I think.

I looked over about 70 juvenile birds of various ages and made some suggestions. Since we won't assemble our breeding pens until nearer Christmas, this visit and looking over the flock was to cull really or to find "possible" candidates as finalists for breeders. Many asked if I would share some thoughts about my thought process. I hope some of this is helpful to you.









These juveniles are too young to judge too much. These are F1 birds of our cross program. We're so happy with this project there aren't really words to describe the joy. The "flaky" results of an outcross of lines is not normally this stable. We will not use any of these cockerels, even though a few are quite stunning. The select pullets will go back under a XW/GSBR male for the next round.

 

[Fred's Hens]

We put about 20 pure XW/GSBR males on the ground this year. I show you some rejects, some possibles and one or two that I believe we will use, if, if they finish well.






This is a reject example. He's headed for freezer camp. Old enough to judge a cull, frankly. I don't like that wing, pinched tail, humpy back line, crow head, etc. He'll taste really good in another 3 or 4 weeks.



Here's a guy that makes the grade. He could well be a finalist. I liked him alot. Don't judge him by my bad photographic skills. In person this is a good young cockerel. Notice he has a proper comb.



Hiding back in the shadows above is an ugly bird. No comment needed.



This is not gold leakage. This guys been rolling in the clay and got himself stained. Plus, the lighting and my camera gives a false impression. I like alot about this hefty guy, but the comb bothers me. Too many birds have this flying rear edge to the comb and we have enough to cull for that this year. Otherwise, a decent young man.



Same comments apply to this guy. He'll be culled. We aren't hurting for males. Freezer camp awaits.



I like this guy. I may give him a reprieve for now. Judge him more harshly later, if needed. Good chest, nice back, decent tail and great width. But…. that comb is't what I'm looking for and concerned his wing finishes correctly. Too many BR males have that down pointing wing feature and I'm not a fan.



This bird is also dirty. But his leg "set" is far too narrow for me. Cull.



I really, really like this young male. He's walking away and would not pose at all. Gosh, what a good young male, and how I wish I had had time to pose him. He's a nice bird, but far too young to pass final judgement. But the comb is good, as well as many other really fine features. I'd like to use this guy over my F1 pullets, if he finishes well, he'd be a good choice.



Ignore the Red who insisted on getting in the photo. He's a cull, BTW. Both of these males are OK. They're spared for now, but they'll have to really show their stuff to make the finals.

As you can see, the males are all penned and yarded up separate now. Males of this age, 15 weeks and up, are a nuisance to pullets who need their own space. We try to pull the sexes apart around 10 weeks, if pens and paddock space allow.

 

[weavers rocks]

fredwiilyoujudgethisbarred

 

[Fred's Hens]

Ken, I assume he is a cockerel from this year's batch?

He's a bit short bodied, hasn't got his tail yet and his wing is hung a bit low. His head is really nice, as is his comb. His breast is filling in nicely. His leg width spacing looks wonderful and he looks thick, which I like. Like every one of these birds, he has great strengths and a few things that will require work.

Is he your pick of the litter?

 

[aoxa]

Fred, I don't think any of them are ugly birds, but I agree with your picks. I do not like the comb on picture #5. I haven't had a single comb like that on the rocks I have now.

I hope I'm not just taking away from your posting, but saw this girl (how did I miss her?) and thought of you and your discussion of good length in the tails. I'm green, so I can't find many faults with her other than the barring not being as crisp as I'd like it. She is young. Still lots of filling out to do. I figure her tail will raise a bit when nearing POL - maybe not. Is the angle terrible? It's not downward by any means. I think she has nicer type than the Pencilled girls I have.

She is 16 weeks old, and I am quite pleased with her thus far. Vibrant yellow/orange legs, nice sized head, long tail.. I do like her..



She's cheeky




I don't know why my birds always pose with one leg back. Maybe it makes their butt look better

The 'tent'








She's also a good size. Faster growing than some of the other girls.


With one of the boys.


The males are much slower to fill in. I like the barring on this one, but his feet look too close together. May be the weird angle? Not sure. He isn't banded, so he wasn't one of my "TO WATCH" cockerels.


This young pullet was hatched by a broody in late July.. So she is about 12-13 weeks old. I like her as well.


Different girl, same age as above - 12-13 weeks.

 

[Fred's Hens]

aoxa,

First, those birds look sooooooo familiar. There are just these tell tale traits from the Maine line that we have.

The "less than razor sharp" barring is one of those features, as is the wing tip being black or dark. There should be some white barring, in a large white patch background out there. The Maine line influence shows right there for example. None of this is important right now. It would similar to choosing Reds based solely on dark coloration. That's a mistake. Build the barn first, make it structurally correct first. Finally, oh sure. We'll paint it pretty. Type, type, type rules all.

Your pullets, all of them, have nice heads and backs and the tails are well set. Very easy on the eyes. Future looking, however, focus on Freak Big Heads. LOL The Rock body requires a Freak Big Head to be in balance, nice and super wide too.

Another area to push, push, push is the wide set stance. Keep thinking over and over again, I need to be able to put my sideway fist through the leg spacing. Birds with narrow set leg stances will never be as attractive and the reason is simple to understand. Reproduction, digestion, organs all need space to make thrifty bird.

Finally, do not neglect the bottom line. Remember the Rock gravy bowl. A chunky, uneven or lumpy bottom line is as bad as narrow set legs. See this pullet you posted? That is a nice bottom line, although the photo isn't in profile, I can tell.

 

[aoxa]

aoxa,

First, those birds look sooooooo familiar. There are just these tell tale traits from the Maine line that we have.

The "less than razor sharp" barring is one of those features, as is the wing tip being black or dark. There should be some white barring, in a large white patch background out there. The Maine line influence shows right there for example. None of this is important right now. It would similar to choosing Reds based solely on dark coloration. That's a mistake. Build the barn first, make it structurally correct first. Finally, oh sure. We'll paint it pretty. Type, type, type rules all.

Your pullets, all of them, have nice heads and backs and the tails are well set. Very easy on the eyes. Future looking, however, focus on Freak Big Heads. LOL The Rock body requires a Freak Big Head to be in balance, nice and super wide too.

Another area to push, push, push is the wide set stance. Keep thinking over and over again, I need to be able to put my sideway fist through the leg spacing. Birds with narrow set leg stances will never be as attractive and the reason is simple to understand. Reproduction, digestion, organs all need space to make thrifty bird.

Finally, do not neglect the bottom line. Remember the Rock gravy bowl. A chunky, uneven or lumpy bottom line is as bad as narrow set legs. See this pullet you posted? That is a nice bottom line, although the photo isn't in profile, I can tell.

I like the barring on this girl you posted. It is more crisp than the one who has a nice tail.

She is from my older hen here:


Hope she has some potential. Mother has stray black feathers, but her type is pretty good (I think?)
ETA: Again with the back leg pose! HA