The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Fred's Hens]

Last picture in this series.


Another 10 days pass. Here she is again. The back is flat. The center "height" you might detect is merely her side feathers standing a wee bit taller than her back feather, still. It will take her another two weeks to even out. But I ask you.

Do you think this pullet will ever develop a cushion? Nope. Will she have a good bottom line? Yup. It's already there. She was hatched with it. Will she have a nice top line? Absolutely. Will she have faults? Of course, all birds do. She always been a wee bit "forward" in pitch, but we'll see as she grows and rear end fills out. But, even this "fault" might be useful. She might be a great matchup for a tail heavy, slightly rainy day male, as a corrective match mating for example.

So we've followed a chick from the brooder to 9 weeks. Hope this photo presentation has helped, if even a little bit.

Keep Rock'n on.

 

[Silver Rock]

Thank you for the information. You answer my question as I was writing it. Thank you!

 

[Fred's Hens]

Clayton, I bred this bird. She was hatched and is proudly owned by Normanack aka Annie and was posted a few pages back.



My line rarely throws females with cushions. In the rare cases where it does appear, it is a throw back. It appears because of the composite nature of the breed, as you well know. Each variety of the Rock is a vastly different original composite.

I steadfastly refuse to put certain faults into the breeding pen. Cushions are one of those things. Narrow leg set is another. Roach backs, crow heads, etc. These faults just spread throughout your line like crabgrass in your lawn.

In my far less than expert opinion, just my farmer speak talkin' now. Don't even start with some of these faults. You'll spend far too many years fighting some of these things. Really, really hard to overcome.

Start with birds that don't have them. Seriously. If Bob Blosi left any more important comment than this truism, I cannot remember what it was. I know people say they are gonna "breed out" faults, but some just hurt you so bad. Start with the very, very best birds you can get your hands on. Oh sure, you'll have to continue to tweak, cull, counter breed for this and that, etc. But, my goodness, painting the barn is easy, but start with the greatest barn you possibly can.

Get a trio from your own hatchlings, or get a trio from the best birds you can find. Out of that trio, hatch 60 chicks. When you're done culling, you might have 8 quality birds, of two generations, to mate up the cockerels back over the dams and the cock over his daughters the next year and then? You are rock'n and rolling, my friend.

Save yourself 5 or 6 wasted years of bustin' your behind and spinning your wheels. That's Bob's "word" and I confirm it completely. FWIW.
Best regards.

 

[maryhysong]

Fred thank you so much for the chick study. Yes I can see what you are saying about each one and see what you are talking about. I really appreciate the time you are taking to teach us here and making things more clear. I've got the Buffs banded and will try and get some decent side shots of each one this weekend to show.

 

[Silver Rock]

Clayton, I bred this bird. She was hatched and is proudly owned by Normanack aka Annie and was posted a few pages back. My line rarely throws females with cushions. In the rare cases where it does appear, it is a throw back. It appears because of the composite nature of the breed, as you well know. Each variety of the Rock is a vastly different original composite. I steadfastly refuse to put certain faults into the breeding pen. Cushions are one of those things. Narrow leg set is another. Roach backs, crow heads, etc. These faults just spread throughout your line like crabgrass in your lawn. In my far less than expert opinion, just my farmer speak talkin' now. Don't even start with some of these faults. You'll spend far too many years fighting some of these things. Really, really hard to overcome. Start with birds that don't have them. Seriously. If Bob Blosi left any more important comment than this truism, I cannot remember what it was. I know people say they are gonna "breed out" faults, but some just hurt you so bad. Start with the very, very best birds you can get your hands on. Oh sure, you'll have to continue to tweak, cull, counter breed for this and that, etc. But, my goodness, painting the barn is easy, but start with the greatest barn you possibly can. Get a trio from your own hatchlings, or get a trio from the best birds you can find. Out of that trio, hatch 60 chicks. When you're done culling, you might have 8 quality birds, of two generations, to mate up the cockerels back over the dams and the cock over his daughters the next year and then? You are rock'n and rolling, my friend. Save yourself 5 or 6 wasted years of bustin' your behind and spinning your wheels. That's Bob's "word" and I confirm it completely. FWIW. Best regards.

I am hoping for far better cushions in my Danny Padgett line than what I have in my Dick Horstman line. I am on the same page as you in that it is hard to move forward if you have faults in your breeding pen. I am in the process of hatching eggs off my Hostman line to get a nice backup Hostman cockerel. Please give me your opinion on the Horstman line cockerels being used in my SPPR breeding plans. I know if the cushion is a problem in my Horstman pullets it is in my Horstman cockerels as well and will be pasted down to the next generation Horstman / Padgett offspring. I guess my question is if my Padgett line is far superior in the cushion area should I avoid using the Horstman line in my SPPR breeding plans.

 

[mlongworth]

i was wondering if anyone could let me know the best buff lines to get. That is the color i would like to get this year. Thank you.

 

[Fred's Hens]

i was wondering if anyone could let me know the best buff lines to get. That is the color i would like to get this year. Thank you.

Read back through this thread a few pages. You'll see some very fine Buff Rocks. Contact the folks via private message and see if they can help you this year. Leg work. Reaching out. That's how it is done. If you are close enough to Columbus, OH, for the Nationals today and tomrrow, it would be well worth the effort. This is another way of securing good birds.

 

[Wynette]

I am hoping for far better cushions in my Danny Padgett line than what I have in my Dick Horstman line. I am on the same page as you in that it is hard to move forward if you have faults in your breeding pen. I am in the process of hatching eggs off my Hostman line to get a nice backup Hostman cockerel. Please give me your opinion on the Horstman line cockerels being used in my SPPR breeding plans. I know if the cushion is a problem in my Horstman pullets it is in my Horstman cockerels as well and will be pasted down to the next generation Horstman / Padgett offspring. I guess my question is if my Padgett line is far superior in the cushion area should I avoid using the Horstman line in my SPPR breeding plans.

Clayton, just a bit of feedback for you - when you say you are "hoping for far better cushions" in your Padgett line - actually, you don't want ANY cushion at all. I'm sure that's what you meant, but just in case, I thought a bit of clarification would be helpful.

Kudos for realizing that if the females in the line have cushions, the males would add to the issue as well. It's a nice cockerel that you have, though - if he were in my breeding pen, I'd try him over some of the Padgett females when they mature, assuming they have what you're looking for to move forward. I would do breedings both ways - best Padgett male over best best Horstman female, and vice versa; mostly because I'm super curious about genetics and out of my own curiosity, I'd want to see what results.

Please don't become discouraged; it's tough looking through the pictures of all the birds posted here with super nice type, and then looking at your own flock, sometimes - believe me, "been there, done that." After the many years I've spent breeding SPR, I have found to enjoy the small leaps forward that I have made. We can't compare our SPR to some of these gorgeous Barred and other varieties...at this point, it's comparing apples to...hmmm...maybe not QUITE oranges! In any event, we're all here to help each other learn & move forward!

 

[Fred's Hens]

Folks in this hobby like to drop names. I get that. But here's the reality. You can get a box of eggs or a small shipment of live chicks from Breeder Jones. Wow, you've got the "Jones" line!! Ooorah!!! Well, just hold the phone. First, you got some chicks, that's all. Unless you've spent a long time with a breed and some time with a specific strain, you've got to take time to learn what's what with them. That'll often take a few years, to be honest. You just don't know them yet, but if you have a keen, patient eye, you can learn their in's and out's. They'll school you.

There's an old saying among old guys who bred stock long before me and it went like this. "We don't breed names, we breed ________". (birds in this case). Only birds go into the breeding pen. Those specific birds that YOU choose. Old "Jones" isn't gonna pick 'em, you do, I do. In fact, old "Jones" may or may not have even sent me eggs from his/her best pen. Who knows? In any case, it comes down to the finalists we must now choose. That's it. We can only breed what's in front of us. When you get a handful of chicks, regardless of the Name, all you've got to work with is just what's in front of you.

I've got these 4, that's right, F O U R chicks in my barn pen. They're Reds. Biggest NAME in the biz.
I don't know a thing about them. Never had them before. All I can do is watch, wait, feed, and care for them, keep my eyes wide open and learn, learn, learn, suck it in like I was in Kindergarten. (which was in the 1950's and Ike was president, LOL)

Then, hope to highest heaven that these four little Reds give me something, something to breed, some place to start.

I hope this gives all you folks looking for spring chicks/eggs something to chew on as you get excited about starting out with great birds as soon as the breeders put their pens together in January.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Clayton, just a bit of feedback for you - when you say you are "hoping for far better cushions" in your Padgett line - actually, you don't want ANY cushion at all. I'm sure that's what you meant, but just in case, I thought a bit of clarification would be helpful.

Kudos for realizing that if the females in the line have cushions, the males would add to the issue as well. It's a nice cockerel that you have, though - if he were in my breeding pen, I'd try him over some of the Padgett females when they mature, assuming they have what you're looking for to move forward. I would do breedings both ways - best Padgett male over best best Horstman female, and vice versa; mostly because I'm super curious about genetics and out of my own curiosity, I'd want to see what results.

Please don't become discouraged; it's tough looking through the pictures of all the birds posted here with super nice type, and then looking at your own flock, sometimes - believe me, "been there, done that." After the many years I've spent breeding SPR, I have found to enjoy the small leaps forward that I have made. We can't compare our SPR to some of these gorgeous Barred and other varieties...at this point, it's comparing apples to...hmmm...maybe not QUITE oranges! In any event, we're all here to help each other learn & move forward!

I had the same thought too, and when asking/conversing on those type issues it helps to know the area/nomenclature a bit better, it will yield more serious results from the folks that are "in the know" like where the cushion could develop is the back ..ect J/S

I think it was Joseph(yellowhousefarms) I believe posted an interesting read on just this sort of topic, like calling the cock a roo(fine for BYC) an so forth. The serious folks/breeders won't take you serious enough/waste their time on matters. Get the science down and speak it and they will listen and answer. Ok my Mr. "knowitall" session is done I'm good, LOL

Jeff