The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[uphilljill]

Re sibling matings: Going into breeding season next year, it looks like I'll have the mama hen and two pullet daughters, and 2 (maybe 3) cockerel sons. The pullets and cockerels are full siblings. I know sibling mating isn't ideal, but guessing it will reveal good and bad genetic traits quickly. What's the best way to start creating seperate lines with a sibling heavy flock?

 

[Fred's Hens]

No "aunts" or "uncles" in the flock at all, Jill?

 

[speckledhen]

Taking Delaware back to BR is a three generation process. I would prefer, always prefer using a pure BR cockbird over the project female. That way, I have a strong double barring gene in the mix, as the pure BR male will carry that double barring gene.

It just all comes down to what one's goals are. Outcrossing in a BR breeding program is not that uncommon, but the cross of choice is usually the White Rock for the purposes of gaining size and tails on males. Working your group back to Barred Rock wouldn't be that difficult, but i would prefer a pure cockbird in this program. Putting that Delaware/BR hybrid male back over a tightly barred female Stukel might get you something of interest, Cyn. But again, it all depend on what your goals are.
Got nothing to lose by trying. The Stukel females aren't going to be around forever.

Well, Fred, I'd prefer that, too, but I have nothing else. My goal was to try to breed back up to closer to the pure Stukel quality male that I started with, using what I have. Atlas is the only double barred male here, albeit the barring is not what I had with a pure Stukel male. Considering the heritage of the Delaware, as Scott mentioned once, he's really more than 3/4 BR, genetically. This was Bob Blosl's suggestion when I had the Delaware x BR double barred cockerel, Indy, working with what I had, to start back to the quality male I had with Rex #1. He told me to breed Indy to Rex #1's daughter, Dru, to get started. She would carry most of that original male's genes. Then, Indy was killed by his sire around 25 weeks of age and I was left with only the single barred Rex #2, Atlas's sire. I'd do better with Atlas, I believe because Atlas is superior to Indy, who, though a giant, was rather squirrel-tailed and did not have nearly the depth between the legs that Atlas has, in spite of his huge overall size. It was always odd to me that a bird who was that huge would have narrow-set legs.

I think Atlas is actually broader than his late uncle was at that age, perhaps taking the faster development from his 1/4 Delaware influence? He certainly has a better comb, though that's not paramount (I am still a sucker for a nice 5 pointer with that regal carriage, though). I can't get a pure cockbird without hatching again because I simply won't buy a started bird from anyone, no matter who it is so either I use Atlas to get back close to what I had with his late uncle or I scrap it entirely.


Quote: Yep.

 

[uphilljill]

No "aunts" or "uncles" in the flock at all, Jill?

Nope. I started with a single breeding pair (1 male, 1 female) and all chicks this year are from them. Unfortunately, I no longer have the cock and therefore looking at sibling mating.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Jill, here's what i would do, FWIW.


First, breeding really great birds takes time. Lots of years, frankly. When we started with those Barred Rocks, I knew it would take almost 5 years to do what I had in mind. Yup, this is year 5 and we're finally seeing what we wanted to see. Was it worth it?

Well, depends on who you ask. Scott, aka Yard Full O' Rocks has been plodding along with his Columbian for 5 years too. Thing is? Just enjoy the process. Pull up a lawn chair, adult beverage of your choice, and on those pleasant summer evenings, just watch the birds with joy. See how each year, they get better and better, but see that the challenges remain. But, again enjoy the birds. If you're not enjoying this? Then, that's a pity, i think.

This is a journey, not a quick destination.

i say all that to say this. If it were me? I would put son #1 (in quality) back over that hen. Hatch every egg she lays for a month. Yes, this takes two small incubators to accomplish. Then put son #2 over her and repeat. Hatch every egg she lays for a month. If she lays 22 eggs per month and you hatch 60%, you'll have put 30 nice chicks on the ground.

If you give her a break and then do a later hatch with again son #1, set every egg for a month, you'll hatch another 18 chicks.

That is all the chicks you need this year. Truly. Hatching with one of the mated pair being an adult is the best way to go.

I wouldn't hatch out of those pullets much this year. I MIGHT try one test batch, but I'd not focus on them. Yes, they'd be sibling matings and I don't see the need. Wait until their hen year in 2016. Put the best K produced in 2015 over them.

Sibling matings, in my experience, for what it's worth? It just produces so much required culling. It seems a waste of incubating and brooding effort, in my opinion.

There is NO LAW that insists we breed pullets. I'd much rather breed the best K1 and K2 back over their mother, the hen.
If I really, really wanted to breed these pullets, I'd be knocking on doors and asking for a male from someone who has the line or a related GSBR, Goy Roy, or XW line. Does that help?

 

[Fred's Hens]

Cynthia,

A lot of what I just shared with Jill applies to your situation as well. If you want to preserve/create a high quality Barred Rock line, and who doesn't? hahaha You and I love these barred birds and those older Stukel hens need to make some chicks this year. Something to move forward with.

Cyn, it's gonna be a three year journey. Enjoy it. I know I would. We need projects and I love projects. It's put in us by our Creator. We love being creative and we love a challenge. I love the challenge and i think you would as well. Why not?

Take your best male and put him over the two best Stukel females and make some chicks. Next year, change up the players and rinse and repeat. Have fun. These are going to be Barred Rocks. That's the goal. They are Barred Rocks not because of pedigree, as poultry isn't like horses or dogs. We don't go by a pedigree. We go by type. What we see. If in two or three years, you breed some stunning Barred Rocks? (and I think you can) that's what they are. If they look like Barred Rocks and fulfill the Standard for the Barred Rock? Then, that is what they are. Period. Breed them to the Standard and that's what they are.

"Pure" in poultry language doesn't mean blood line, it means what we see with our eyes. When they look like Standard bred BR, that is what they are, pure BR. No if, ands, or buts about it.

I hope you go for it!!!!!

 

[uphilljill]

That makes way more sense than the convoluted breeding plan I was envisioning. Nice and simple. Thx! No rush here. Only goal is to build a strong foundation.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Spent this evening re-building a travel box I used for juveniles. ha ha!! No way these big White Rocks are gonna fit. So, making it taller.

Meanwhile, the noise of the chop saw and screw gun helps condition the pullet in her cage. She's experiencing lots of action, movement, noise, etc. Calming right down. Nice.

 

[uphilljill]

Those birds are traveling first class. Nice job!

 

[SilverRockFarm]

Hi All, it has been awhile since the last time I've been here in the Plymouth Rock group. Work has been very busy the last few months with little free time. Things are starting to slow down now & I'm very much looking forward to another breeding season with my Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks. I only have a handful "cull cull cull" from what I had a few months ago but they are the ones I want to move forward with into the next year.