The Rhodebar thread!

[nicalandia]

Just wondering if anyone has any tips for Barred Male to RIR pullet offspring as chicks. We have started hatching out several eggs with first clutch almost finished. Are there are there any tips to telling if they will be barred at hatch. Obviously the black ones are not keepers, but are there any distinguishing marks on the browns to tell if they are barred at day old? Thanks

Here are some that just hatched earlier this morning and are a good example of the 3 colors I am seeing.

These are not at the point of auto-sexing.


Of course replace RIR with the brown leghorn.

sorry to be the bearer of bad news for you guys(specially Makomd) if any of you guys are using Barred rock males over RIR hen then you are doom to fail, you guys are just wasting your time on a genetic dead end...

if any of you guys using a pure Rhodebar roo over R.I.R hen then there is still hope for you guys, if you are at the F1 stage dont even thing about going back to R.I.R hen, you would be wasting your time also, what you need to do is do a F1xF1 and you will be able to get autosexing chicks on that hatch... if you dont have access to a Rhodebar roo you can use any large Crele breed(cant stop thinking about using large Crele OEG) do a F1xF1 keep a few autosexing hens and use a R.I.R roo over them, by doing this you will be again killing the autosexing trait(will be hidden) but this is to regain the R.I.R type and color, do a F1xF1 again and you will get your own Rhodebars....

any genetic question just post your question or P.M me, I´ll be sure to be checking this page more often now, can't believe I let this happen on my watch

 

[nicalandia]

I finally got some better pictures of my Rhodebar Roo and the RIR hens I placed with him.......Your comments are welcome either good or bad, since I am just at the beginning of this project and this is my first with this breed....

now this is the way to go about recreating a nice dark Rhodebars, but you may not be able to sex the F1s as they will be eWh/e+ birds, some may look all yellow(orangy due to mahogany) or they could look halfway between wheaten and wildtype..

eWh/e+ chick..

 

[nicalandia]

why cant you use a Barred Rock over a RIR and expect any Autosexing chicks once you cross the F1s together?....you can blame it on the chick´s Wheaten "e" allele, its just immune to the effects of barring, the chick down will remain untouched, be it a silver wheaten(S/S eWh) or gold wheaten(s+ eWh RIR case)

first case scenario, Barred Columbian Silver Wheaten

Delaware breed: (created using NH and Barred Rock) their genotype is the following, eWh/eWh(wheaten much like your F2s) Co/Co(Columbian Restricted just like Rhodebars) S/S(dominant sex linked Silver, Rhodebars are based on recessive sex linked gold) B/B(dominant sex linked barring, no effect on wheaten chick down)

this is how they look at hatch
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...different-features-different-sex#post_1097067

Second Senario: Barred Columbian gold wheaten

Euskal Oiloa: their genotype is eWh/eWh(wheaten just like many of your F2s) Co/Co(Columbian Restricted just like Rhodbars) s+/s+(recessive sex linked gold, just like Rhodebars are) B/B(dominant Sex linked barring, no effect on wheaten chick down)

here is how the chicks look like
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/510045/euskal-oiloa-basque-thread/400#post_7743360

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ok now that we have cleared this up(Barring cant affect wheaten chick down) we can move forward with the Rhodebar project..

first thing first, let's identify the correct Rhodebar chick "e" allele chick down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneunhenged

Here are two pics of day-old rhodebar chicks that show their remarkable auto-sexing function. Males are blonde and often have a white head spot, females have chipmunk stripes.

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above chicks are Wildtype in nature(with barring diluting the male chickdown)

just for comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicalandia

here is a drawing of crele Old English Game chicks
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just to show you another autosexing barred wildtype chick down(legbar, lack columbian, but Co has no effect on wildtype chick down anyways)


Quote:

Originally Posted by ​

nicalandia​

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here is a video of two cream legbar chicks, you can clearly see the headspot on boys, but the hen lacks the headspot all together...

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now Crele OEG chicks(also Wildtype barred chick down)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicalandia

check below Crele OEG chicks(10 second mark)

Crele OEG day old chick down difference between sex..(boys are lighter and have the headspot, hens have normal duckwing chick down)


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as as you can see even if the Rhodebar looks just like a barred RIR, the "e" allele was changed to e+(wildtype) to make sexing possible, how can you do the same? start with Rhodebar bird and use a good quality RIR or use a large Crele breed over RIR, do F1xF1 and you will get F2 that will be autosexing at hatch with lots of RIR bodytype to them....

can other "e" alleles be used as autosexing? yes..
Extended black E allele : Barred Rock http://showbirdbid.com/coppermine/rockclub/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=15

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Birchen ER allele : Gold Cuckoo Marans(the ones based on ER and sex linked barring)

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from http://frenchmaransclubaustralia.yolasite.com/notes-on-breeding.php (scroll almost all the way down the page)


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Brown eb allele : Crele Penedesenca(they are based on eb instead of e+)

now keep in mind that males are Always lighter independently of the "e" allele(except for wheaten which is immune to autosexing using chick down) but on eb the hens also have a head spot and are brown colored in nature, buys are pale instead


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[FONT=verdana, arial]CHICK DOWN: The female is brown with a white spot on the head. In the males the spot spreads to the back giving a light coloration.[/FONT]
from: http://www.freewebs.com/penedesenca/penedesencastandard.htm

I wish I was here before you guys made the matings, well I hope you don't get discouraged by this,

any questions just P.M me ok

Thanks
Marvin

 

[cjwaldon]

sorry to be the bearer of bad news for you guys(specially Makomd) if any of you guys are using Barred rock males over RIR hen then you are doom to fail, you guys are just wasting your time on a genetic dead end...

I took a male black sex link roo (RIR male x BR female) crossed to a female RIR. This cross is resulting in black, white, and red chicks. The handy dandy chart doesn't show white chicks as an option. Hmmmmm . . . . . (These are all hatchery birds.) I'm getting aproximately 80% black, 17% white, 4% red. I haven't figured out the barred to solid ratio.

Soooo, my next question . . . . two of my black chicks are feathering in red barred. Are these keepers, or should I not keep any of the black chicks?

These are about five weeks old.

 

[nicalandia]

My next step in my rhode bar work was to change the E locus of my birds from wheaten to brown. I think this would have helped darken the color of the females. I did not do it- so I can not say if it will work for sure. The brown allele works differently than the wheaten allele on the cell level- I think this would have made a difference. I would have used barnevelder to darken the color.

You could tell from the chick down if the birds were brown or wheaten.

Tim

I wish you could have elaborated more on this subject Tim, because eb(brown) an autosexing e locus(combined with sexlinked barring) and Wheaten(eWh) is not an autosexing chick down

 

[nicalandia]

I took a male black sex link roo (RIR male x BR female) crossed to a female RIR. This cross is resulting in black, white, and red chicks. The handy dandy chart doesn't show white chicks as an option. Hmmmmm . . . .

Barred Rocks are Dominant sex linked Silver(S/S), while R.I.R are recessive sex linked gold(s+/s+) so you black sex linked roo is whats called a "Golden" rooster, having both the Silver and gold gene, when cross with a RIR, you will get wheaten silver hens(pale yellow) and wheaten gold hens(redish down enhanced by the mahogany gene on RIR)...

Soooo, my next question . . . . two of my black chicks are feathering in red barred. Are these keepers, or should I not keep any of the black chicks?

These are about five weeks old.

dont keep the black chicks at all... now after saying this let me ask you, do you have access to any Rhodebar roo or hen at all? because if you dont then you need to get a large crele roo or a large legbar roo... you need wildtype chick down if you want true breeding Rhodebars, there is NO otherway around sorry

 

[melroseladi]

Quote:
So are you saying that breeding using the chart will not produce Rhodebars? I am so totally confused now.

 

[cjwaldon]

Me too, totally confused. Are you saying to start over?

I have Cream Legbars, but no Rhodebars.

 

[nicalandia]

Me too, totally confused. Are you saying to start over?

I have Cream Legbars, but no Rhodebars.

yes unfortunately I´m afraid you need to start over from scratch... you cant use the cream legbars(they lay blue eggs right?) are they the crested ones?

 

[cjwaldon]

. . . use any large Crele breed(cant stop thinking about using large Crele OEG) do a F1xF1 keep a few autosexing hens and use a R.I.R roo over them, by doing this you will be again killing the autosexing trait(will be hidden) but this is to regain the R.I.R type and color, do a F1xF1 again and you will get your own Rhodebars....

Shouldn't you cross the autosexing roo back to the RIR hen (not vise versa) and still get back to RIR type and color?