The Rhodebar thread!

[nicalandia]

I wanted to darken the female so the barring would show up better. I was not breeding for auto-sexing.


Tim

I understand the goal of your project, and believe me they look Awesome, they are infact the best Rhodebar looking birds I have seen.... But I guess you forgot to tell these people about the issue of wheaten, they were not aware of this issue and got frustraded when they crossed F1xF1 and were not able to autosex them at all

 

[melroseladi]

Is not autosexing part of the Rhodebar breed? If we breed to get Rhodebars that can't be autosexed have we really created true Rhodebars or just chickens that look like Rhodebars?

I guess I am just confused at how RIR and BPR were used to create the Rhodebar breed in the first place but now the RIR can't be used. Makes no sense to me, lol, but I am easily confused when it comes to genetics.

 

[Makomd]

From my understanding the Rhodebar was first created using the English Brussbar instead of the bared rock, can we assume that the Brussbar had an e allele?

I am at the point where I should have barred red birds that breed true with next matings is it possible to add the wild type e allele at this stage and work with the offspring.

We were just doing this for the fun of teaching the kids a little about genetics and we already had the birds on hand. After raising Golden Cuckoo Marans which are auto sexing, but takes some practice, I realize why they are great if you plan on raising them for yourself but selling them leaves you with all the work of rehoming the roos or the expenses of growing them out and selling them as meat birds later.

 

[nicalandia]

Is not autosexing part of the Rhodebar breed? If we breed to get Rhodebars that can't be autosexed have we really created true Rhodebars or just chickens that look like Rhodebars?

That´s right, Tim created the best looking birds that looked like Rhodebars but lacked the autosexing trait which makes them not Rhodebars at all

I guess I am just confused at how RIR and BPR were used to create the Rhodebar breed in the first place but now the RIR can't be used. Makes no sense to me, lol, but I am easily confused when it comes to genetics.

RIR can be use but Only to obtain all of its nice traits(dark color, large size, eggs) but without the Wheaten gene(R.I.R are wheaten instead of the autosexing e+)...


let me explain this further...

R.I.R x Barred Rock cant be use because Barred Rock lack the Autosexing "e" allele need it to make a Rhodebar...RIR also lack this trait, but sinse we need an autosexing bird that looks just like RIR on all aspects(except barring) we need RIR in the breeding stock to enhance those traits, so at some point true Rhodebars should be bred to RIR as not to lose those traits

R.I.R x Crele Rooster is whats need it because Crele are both sex linked Barred and have the autosexing e+ allele

 

[nicalandia]

From my understanding the Rhodebar was first created using the English Brussbar instead of the bared rock, can we assume that the Brussbar had an e allele?

its called e+(wildtype) allele, yes they had to have the e+ allele, eb(brown) also works but the onlyautosexing breed that I have seen eb is on Crele Penedesenca

I am at the point where I should have barred red birds that breed true with next matings is it possible to add the wild type e allele at this stage and work with the offspring. .

After raising Golden Cuckoo Marans which are auto sexing, .

thats right Golden cuckoo(also silver cuckoo) marans are autosexing breed...interesting enough if one adds the columbian restrictor gene Db(dark brown, ) one could have a Rhodebar look alike(maybe not as dark, but mahogany should help)

 

[melroseladi]

That´s right, Tim created the best looking birds that looked like Rhodebars but lacked the autosexing trait which makes them not Rhodebars at all


RIR can be use but Only to obtain all of its nice traits(dark color, large size, eggs) but without the Wheaten gene(R.I.R are wheaten instead of the autosexing e+)...


let me explain this further...

R.I.R x Barred Rock cant be use because Barred Rock lack the Autosexing "e" allele need it to make a Rhodebar...RIR also lack this trait, but sinse we need an autosexing bird that looks just like RIR on all aspects(except barring) we need RIR in the breeding stock to enhance those traits, so at some point true Rhodebars should be bred to RIR as not to lose those traits

R.I.R x Crele Rooster is whats need it because Crele are both sex linked Barred and have the autosexing e+ allele

So how did they use the RIR and the BPR originally to create the Rhodebar breed? I would think that if Mr Pickard, who developed the Rhodebar in the early 50's, used breeds other then the RIR and BPR that info would be out there, somewhere. Everything I come up with in my research only mentions Mr. Pickard creating the Rhodebar breed out of crossings from RIR and BPR. That's what confuses me.

Thank you for all of your time trying to explain all of this to us. It is most appreciated.

 

[nicalandia]

I would think that if Mr Pickard, who developed the Rhodebar in the early 50's, used breeds other then the RIR and BPR that info would be out there,.

Thank you for all of your time trying to explain all of this to us. It is most appreciated.

sometimes breeders can be secretive of their work and mislead on purpose other breeders into a genetic dead end.


Edit...

just take a look at the Delaware with a very similar parents, BPR and NH. they are Wheaten(just like RIR) and are columbian restricted(just like RIR) but they are not autosexing at all, not one bit, all of the chicks are yellow at hatch.. oh but they are Silver instead of gold you may say(RIR are gold based).. well take a look at the barred Euskal Oiloa they are wheaten, columbian restricted and barred based on wheaten and they are also not autosexing just like the dalawares, why? again Wheaten is NOT autosexable

 

[Makomd]

Is it possible for e+ to show up with hatchery stock Barred Rocks. Here are 2 chicks that hatched yesterday with my new rooster. Out of the 30 chicks about 50-50 black to red and 2-3 with markings on their backs, does this look like possible e+ allele or just random markings.




I have someone coming to pick up all the chicks in next few hours, just want to make sure I shouldn't keep a couple.

 

[nicalandia]

Is it possible for e+ to show up with hatchery stock Barred Rocks.

its possible that hatchery stock Barred Rocks carry e+, anything is possible with hatchery stock, but seems like your roo is not one of them, the chicks you hold on your hands look like heritage RIR I have seen awhile back.. let me find some pics of them...




edit..

here are some pics of the Heritage chicks I was talking about...


from thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/407294/the-heritage-rhode-island-red-site/1000#post_8655241

Wildtype e+ looks like this





hey crossing your Golden cuckoo with Red Orps should yield similar results as Rhodebars(autosexing barred black tail reds)

 

[Makomd]

How about Red Sussex instead of Red Orpington, I actually have a few of those in the growout pen. Red Orps are just too expensive and rare at this point in the US. Thanks again